Agenda – Plymouth Select Board 4-5-22 Agenda

Official Minutes – Plymouth Select Board 4-5-22 Minutes

Please note this transcription is unofficial. If you find an error, use the contact page to notify Plymouth On The Record.

Dick Quintal:

Select Board’s meeting, Tuesday, April 5th 2022. Please join the board in the pledge of allegiance to the flag.

All

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. Mrs. Cavacco, you read the Governor’s order, please.

Betty Cavacco:

In accordance with Section 2475, and pursuant to Chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means and in-person. Members of the public who wish to watch the meeting may do so in the following manner: tune into PACTV government cable access channels Comcast 15 or Verizon Channel 47 and watch the meeting as it is aired live, or watch the meeting live the PACTV website at www.PACTV.org. Members of the public who wish to participate in the meeting may do so in the following manner:

• Plymouth Town Hall, 26 Court Street, the 1820 Courtroom
• Remote participation: go to the town website under the Select Board page and click on the Zoom Webinar Registration box.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you very much. Calling the meeting to order and first up is July 4th Committee update, Matt Tavares.

Matt Tavares:

Good evening, everybody. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the board. To start off, I guess happy 4th of July. First, I’d like to thank the community as a whole for rallying together and pulling off an $80,000 fundraising effort in the matter of a few weeks last year for what I believe many consider the best fireworks display Plymouth has probably seen in a number of years. I’d also like to thank this board for supporting us over in those many years as well and particularly this past year the work that Mr. Quintal, Mrs. Cavacco and Mr. Bletzer did in putting in a huge effort to help facilitate large donations towards the 4th of July.

That being said, the July 4th Committee is back at work and looking to have both the parade and the fireworks this year. We have a fundraising goal of $120,000 for 2022. Currently, we have a hundred thousand to go. Online donations have been opened up and sponsorship information has been opened up on july4plymouth.com. Donations can be made directly through the website which is something that we’ve implemented over the last couple of years. That seems to be going well and making it easier for people to donate.

The theme for the parade this year is a Tribute to Plymouth. Like I said, the online registration is open on the website: july4plymouth.com, and this year we have a new parade route that we’ll touch upon–Jeff will touch upon in a bit. We want the public to start paying attention to it. Excuse me, it’s not a new parade route, a new rallying point to start off the parade route. It’s somewhere where we’ve been in the past, but we haven’t been there for a long time. But the schedule for the day so far, and we’re still in the early stages are for the Annual 4th of July 5K at stepping off at 7:30 in the morning. The parade stepping off from North Plymouth at 9 o’clock and then the fireworks will be held at dusk, which is typically around nine o’clock. As you know, we come back a couple of times leading up to the 4th and when we do, we’ll let you know about any additional pieces that we pull together. We don’t want to let all the surprises out at once, I guess. But Jeff, if you’d like to just speak to the new point here.

Jeff Metcalfe:

Sure. Thanks, Matt. Thanks everyone for allowing us to be here this evening, so we could pass along this information. As many of you know, the last several years, we’ve been in the parking area of farthest most in North Plymouth where the old Stop & Shop and the Rockland Trust used to be. But as many of you know in the last year or so, there’s a new drive-in theater there. So, unfortunately, the two of us can’t fit in the same parking area. So, we went back to where we came originally, and I’m happy to say that the Cordage Commerce Center has agreed to allow us to stage the parade lineup at Cordage Park, which is great for us, and we hope great for them and have a long-term relationship with them over the years.

[0:05:12]

Jeff Metcalfe:

So, we brought a map of Cordage Park just to give you an idea as to how this is all going to work. So, the entrance to Cordage is at the bottom there and essentially, the idea is that anybody that is participating in the parade or even if you’re dropping off, you would come to the entrance and go to the left of the pond and as you go around the end of–well, it’s actually Mill 10 now, but it’s the building with the tower in it, but you’d go around to the left and come around the back of the building. Now, right at the corner there where you come around what’s Mill 3, you got two options: if you’re in the parade, you would continue to go straight and there’ll be several Rotarian’s to meet you there, and you can see that there’s Division 1, Division 2 and Division 3 because we’ll be heading out going west out to the main entrance and down Route 3A and Court Street. The other thing is if you are dropping off in the back parking lot, there is parking there if you’re just dropping off your kids, or you’re in a band, and you need to park, there is a parking area there. There’s also a parking area across the railroad tracks east of this parking lot, but the idea is that you would drop off there, you go back toward Mill 10 and circle around to come back out to the main entrance again. So, we’re hoping it’s a pretty simple methodology to get in and out. As you know, the other spot that we had had its own challenges as well, but hopefully, this is a little simpler with Division 1 up close to the street, Division 2, Division three then obviously Division 1 would lead out first. And then in front of the building is going to be closed off because there is a dialysis center that’s there, and they will need to keep those parking spaces open for the patients, and we’ve had a conversation with them about that as well. But again, you’ll be seeing us and we’ll be talking more about this because the whole idea is to try to re-educate the public if we can about how the parade will work and line up. So, happy to be back and hope it’ll be a good time for everybody, but we’re really looking forward to it. At this point, Anne Marie, you want to–

Matt Tavares:

Anne Marie is on the committee, but she handles a lot of the race logistics for the 5K. So, again, I believe it’s just stepping up at 7:30 in the route.

Anne Marie Winchester:

Yeah, we’re going to keep the same time that we did last year. Previously, we’ve been doing the race at 8:15, which causes a real hectic cleanup because we need to be able to get everything off the streets before the crowd starts coming in for the parade. Last year, we did the race at 7:30. The numbers weren’t impacted at all, so we still have the same amount of money that we can donate to the parade and the fireworks. This will allow us to get everything off the road built. There’ll be a lot less traffic at that hour as well, and then it will give me time to be able to go down and coordinate the waterfront area, which always seems to be a little hectic first thing in the morning. So, that will free up some of our time to be able to ensure that that moves smoother down at the waterfront. And so, hopefully, that will work well. It also works better for the police to do it a little bit earlier.

The route simply we start and finish right at Stephen’s Field. You come out of Stephen’s Field to take a right on Sandwich-Main Street extension all the way down to the old Benny’s Plaza. You’re going to take a right on Nelson Street, come all the way down Water Street back Union Street and back into Stephen’s Field. It’s a real simple loop that we use regularly for road races. So, it’s worked fine in the past for us. Unfortunately, we do have the Old Colony Club cannon that usually goes off at 8 o’clock, which of course we don’t want. They were kind enough to do it a little bit earlier for us last year so that when the runners are coming down Water Street in front of Plymouth Rock there, they don’t have a cannon going off over them. It frightens them a little bit. So, we’re trying to work with them to move that up again this year. And then anything to do with the website, I actually handle the website design and updating as well.

[0:10:08]

Anne Marie Winchester:

Everything that you could possibly want to know about the parade is on the website. We will continue to update that. If anybody is interested in sponsorship packages, the full details of all sponsorship levels are out there. And we encourage anybody that wants to get involved to please reach out and everything has been moved to online, which makes everything much easier. We don’t have to worry about people mailing in checks if they don’t want to. You can do all of your donations as well as your sponsorship checks right online. So, if anybody has any questions, please let me know. With that, I’ll turn it back over to Matt.

Matt Tarares:

I really don’t have anything else because I know we’ll probably be back here in about a month again to give you an update on how we’re doing. So, with that, thank you very much.

Dick Quintal:

I want to say thank you to you all, your committee, for all your time and effort. I know a lot goes into it and I appreciate it, and it was beautiful last year. It really was. And I think that the people were out in droves, they were all over the waterfront. I mean, I was out on a cruise that night but I was amazed. I took pictures actually like a movie of so many people. I think everybody was just waiting to get outside. So, it was perfect timing. Do we have comments the board? Charlie?

Charlie Bletzer:

Yeah, I’d like to make a comment. I want to thank you also for the volunteer, the hours that you put in. I mean, it’s a year-round job for you folks and I don’t think people realize what goes into it. (Audio Lost)

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. Moving on to the Public Hearing for The Tasty. Chris, is there anybody here from Tasty?

Chris Badot:

Yes, I have Jeanine Peters.  (Audio Lost)

Dick Quintal:

Okay. All right. I’m going to read the hearing notice. It’s not working. Okay. Thank you. Welcome. We’re having trouble with microphones, but we’ll share for now.

In accordance with Chapter 138 of the Massachusetts General Laws as amended, notice is hereby given that a public hearing will be held remotely or in-person in the Plymouth Town Hall, 26 Court Street, Plymouth, Massachusetts on Tuesday, April 5th, 2022 at 6:00 p.m. to consider the application for an Alteration of Premises from The Tasty LLC, holder of Annual All Alcohol Restaurant License, 42 Court Street, Jeanine Peters, manager. Description on premises will be as follows: three-story building, first floor and basement to be licensed. First floor: two rooms, 750 square feet, one entrance, two exits, two bathrooms. Basement is for employees use only. Consists of three rooms: 750 square feet, one entrance, three exits. Total square feet: 1500. Applicant seeks to add outdoor seating areas on the sidewalk and two cordoned off parking spaces. Anyone wishing to be heard on this matter should plan to attend this meeting. I now declare the hearing open. And welcome, Mrs. Peters.

Charlie Blertzer:

She’s muted.

Dick Quintal:

Ms. Peters, you’re muted there. There you go.

Nina Peters:

Thank you for having me.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Did you want to say anything or did you want me to continue with the hearing?

Nina Peters:

No, let’s continue.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. That being said, anyone wishing to speak in favor of this application? Anybody online? No. Anybody wishing to speak in opposition to this application? Seeing none. Anyone online, Chris? No. Okay. I’m going to bring it back to close the hearing and bring it back to the board for recommendation or comments.

Betty Cavacco:

Motion to approve.

Patrick Flaherty:

I’ll second that.

Dick Quintal:

Discussion? All those in favor? Unanimous.

[0:15:05]

Nina Peters:

Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. The next one, I believe this is Mr. Peters, right? On this one?

Chris Badot:

Yes.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. All right. In accordance with Chapter 138 of the Massachusetts General Laws as amended, notice is hereby given that a public hearing will be held remotely or in-person at Plymouth Town Hall, 26 Court Street, Plymouth, Massachusetts on Tuesday, April 5th, 2022 at 6:05 p.m. to consider the application for an Alteration of Premises from No Reservations Inc., doing business as Honey Baby, holder of an Annual All Alcohol Restaurant license, 47 Court Street, Michael Peters, manager. Description of premises will be as follows: three-story building, first floor and basement to be licensed, two floors; main floor, dining room and bar, kitchen and unisex bathroom. Approximate 1200 square feet: one entrance, two exits. Basement floor, approximately 600 usable feet of storage space, utility and closet and walk-in for employees only. Applicant seeks to add outdoor seating areas on the sidewalk and two cordoned off parking spaces. Anyone wishing to be heard on this matter should plan to attend this meeting. I now declare the meeting open. Chris, is there anyone wishing to speak in favor?

Chris Badot:

No.

Dick Quintal:

Anyone wishing to speak in favor? Anyone wishing to speak in opposition? No one, Chris? Okay. I now declare the hearing closed and bring it back to the board.

Betty Cavacco:

Motion to approve.

Charlie Bletzer:

I second, for discussion.

Dick Quintal:

Second. Mr. Bletzer?

Charlie Bletzer:

I’ll just say, I just want to comment that you got two great restaurants here now. You guys are doing a great job. I’m hoping this year that the staffing and the level that you’ll be able to stay open as many nights as possible because I think it’s very important for our downtown that we get restaurants and retail versions to stay open as much as possible because they’re doing service to the tourists and the residents. The downtown is becoming revitalized, and it’s because of the businesses that we’re attracting, and you have two of them. That’s all I’m hoping you’ll be able to do it and hopefully the staff will be much better this year than it was last year. Is that your plan to stay open–

Nina Peters:

I can’t hear you.

Charlie Bletzer:

Can you hear what I’m saying?

Nina Peters:

I’m sorry?

Harry Helm:

They can’t hear him.

Charlie Bletzer:

What I said earlier, I’m hoping that you got two, you do a nice job at both of your restaurants and I think it’s important. I know we had a problem last year with staffing, it was tough to stay open every night, but I’m hoping that you’ll be able to stay open. Can you hear me now?

Nina Peters:

I can. Now, I can hear you.

Charlie Bletzer:

Okay. You have two great restaurants. It’s very important to the downtown that the restaurants and retail merchants stay open as much as possible. I know there was a problem with staffing last year, I’m hoping it’s going to be a better situation this year because I think it’s very important for tourism and residence especially the outdoor dining to see the business is open as much as possible. I think it really helps. The downtown has been revitalized. It’s because of the businesses that have been attractive down there. So, I’m hoping you’ll be able to do that because you’re important to the downtown. Is that your plans to stay open as much as possible? How many nights do you plan on staying open?

Nina Peters:

I can barely hear you. I will say we didn’t open until mid-July last year. (Inaudible due to some audio problems) We were outdoors. And as for The Tasty, we were opened five days a week starting (Inaudible due to some audio problems) February, mid-February of 2021. I don’t think that with the executive posting so that we could go on page and (Inaudible due to some audio problems) will be on private vehicle.

[0:20:26]

Charlie Bletzer:

I’ve said this too. I feel the same way about all the businesses that it’s important for the downtown that we stay open as much as possible, so when the people come down there, they see a vibrant downtown. I think it’s very important. Like I said, you guys are doing a great job. I know you opened the second business last summer and I know the staffing was tough, but I’m hoping this is going to be a better year for everybody as far as staffing goes. So, anyway, good luck, Nina.

Nina Peters:

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Dick Quintal:

Any other questions from the board? Seeing none, all those in favor? Unanimous, thank you. Good luck.

Nina Peters:

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Dick Quintal:

Next, we’re going to have a public hearing on the Aquaculture Licenses. Lee, is there anyone here for it? I know we have three applicants, Chad and so if you just touch on a little bit what’s going on to people that don’t know.

Chad Hunter:

Sure. Thank you. Good evening, Chairman Quintal, Members of the Board. So, you have three licensed sites for Aquaculture in front of you tonight. One for James Shores, one for Kevin Houston and one for Marina Houston. All three applicants are off the current waiting list, the aquaculture waiting list, and we’ll be accepting sites within the Aquaculture Development Zone. James Shores is here tonight along with Kevin Houston and I believe Marina might be joining us remotely. If anybody has any–okay, if you had any questions for any of the applicants, they are here to answer those. And obviously, this is part of our move to some of the sites that weren’t being fully utilized came back to the town. We were able to reassign these and each one of these applications is essentially a new business, so that’s really great to have. And I wish all of the applicant’s luck on their startups and if we can help them out in any way to let us know. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. Any questions from the board for the applicants or Chad? No? Can we move them all three at once, Lee or do we have to–yeah. Okay. We’ll accept the motion.

Betty Cavacco:

Motion to grant James Shore, Kevin Houston and Marina Houston, Aquaculture Licenses.

Harry Helm:

So, did you say three?

Betty Cavacco:

Yes.

Charlie Bletzer:

I second the motion.

Dick Quintal:

Second by Mr. Bletzer. Discussion? Seeing none. All in favor? Bear with me, Harry, I’m doing the best I can. We had a Recreational Marijuana on here, Kaleafa that’s been withdrawn. I thought you did. You read the three names.

Betty Cavacco:

Yeah, and then a second, and then we didn’t do the vote.

Dick Quintal:

We did the vote for the aquaculture, right?

Harry Helm:

We did the vote, but I don’t believe you announced. You usually say–

Dick Quintal:

Well, I’m sorry, okay. All right. Unanimous. That’s because I was watching you Harry go like this. I try to watch everybody on both sides. Okay. So, we’re all good with that now? All right, I apologize.

So, Kaleafa has been withdrawn for some issues with the name and we’re going to move on to the Board of Health. We have one full seat open, and we have an alternate, Dustin Harris, who is the alternate also at the moment. So, it depends what the board does what we’re going to do. So, I’m going to just add the first full seat. So, you have the applications in front of you. Is Lorenzo Pizarro here?

[0:25:05]

Dick Quintal:

Right there. How are you doing? Welcome. David Golden? Right here, okay. Dennis Swift?

Dennis Swift:

Yes, that’s me.

Dick Quintal:

That’s you? Okay. Dustin Harris?

Dustin Harris:

That’s me.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. In no particular order, just the order that they’re in our packets, any questions for any of the applicants? Or Mr. Pizarro would be first.

Betty Cavacco:

Sure.

Dick Quintal:

Mrs. Cavacco?

Betty Cavacco:

Mr. Pizarro, what is your interest in this appointment and some of your key experiences for the Board of Health?

Chris Badot:

He is not present.

Betty Cavacco:

Okay. I guess then he has none.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Chris, I mean, when they’re speaking, I couldn’t hear what they were saying either. So, I think we have Mr. Boucher in here, a good audio-visual guy. We need your assistance. Okay.

Betty Cavacco:

So, Mr. Golden is next?

Dick Quintal:

Yes, Mr. Golden.

Betty Cavacco:

Same question for you.

David Golden:

Thank you for that question. Good evening, Chair Quintal, members of the Select Board, I’m delighted to be here before you tonight in-person to be an applicant for the Board of Health. I believe that I bring a diverse set of experiences that could really be applicable to this role, and it would uniquely suit me to serve our community in this position. I worked previously as the Director of Residence Life at a mid-sized college. And in that role, I dealt with a plethora of public health issues. It was a regular part of my day-to-day work to deal with folks who are experiencing mental health crises. The problems range from homesickness to suicidality, mania, schizophrenia and really everything in between.

Addiction was another common phenomenon with which I engage in my work. Alcohol, drugs, gambling, gaming and many other habits hindered the health and well-being of our community. It was my job to develop services and implement other strategies to curb these such behaviors. In addition, I’ve dealt with stakeholders who are impacted by things like bed bugs, anxiety, sexually transmitted infections, sleep deprivation and heat sickness. In the doldrums of summer, I’ve had to deploy measures to mitigate EEE outbreaks.

Finally, I was responsible in conjunction with our health center to develop plans to manage outbreaks in our community. Each and every year, this included things like the flu, the Norovirus and even chickenpox. More recently, of course like all of us dealt with, I was a member of the team that was responsible for shutting down our community and reopening it in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic. I think all of these experiences have given me insight that’s applicable to this role. Outside of that, my education has also prepared me. As an undergraduate student, I studied Political Science. My master’s degree is in Public Administration, and I’m in the final stages of obtaining my Doctorate in Education. Combined with my municipal government roles that I currently occupy and which regularly interface with the public, I understand that the responsibility of a group such as the Board of Health is to balance research data with stakeholder sentiment in order to craft meaningful and impactful public health policy.

Lastly, I would point to my experience in the food service and real estate industries as rationale for my appointment. From a young age until after I graduated college, I worked in kitchens and bars, restaurants and nursing facilities. In these roles, I was responsible for sanitary delivery of service to our customers. Moreover, I currently possess a license and I utilize a license to be a real estate salesperson. Thus, I’m familiar with all things environmental and health related concerning the development and sale of homes. All of this experience would allow me to lend a unique perspective on everything from sanitary codes to septic variances, mental health of our community and to the response of the current and ongoing and future public health crises. I humbly request that this Board support me, so that I can provide a different perspective to one of our most critical boards. Thank you for your time.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Golden. Any questions for Mr. Swift? Go ahead, Mr. Helm.

[0:30:13]

Harry Helm:

Mr. Swift, I have the same basic question that were posed to Mr. Golden.

Dennis Swift:

Thank you, Select Board for giving me the opportunity to interview for the opposition in the Board of Health in Plymouth. I am a Plymouth resident. I was born here in Plymouth. I’ve been on the board before previously within the last couple of years. And unfortunately, I had to step down from the Board due to a work commitment with the current hospital system that I’m working. I have run COVID testing and pretty much all things COVID for Southcoast Hospital Group for over the last few years to include statistics, testing, vaccinations, working with the doctor’s offices, policies, anything that had to do with COVID for us. I was the one that ended up taking care of it. On the board, I picked up a similar role where I worked as a go-to person for anything and everything COVID. I put together a package to help open up one of the vaccination sites potentially at the Kingston Mall or at the Center for Active Living in Plymouth and have that ready within a day’s notice in case we got the go ahead from the Capitol Building. Unfortunately, that never came to fruition, but we put a lot of work, a lot of time into it, and it just showed that unique team working together as a team and understanding what each person’s role was in that event.

I used to work for Bristol County, the coalition for Emergency Preparedness and Disaster Response. I worked with all of Bristol County Health Departments over the span of four years starting in 2010. I did all their disaster plans for the Health Departments. I also ran the Medical Reserve Corps for all the towns in that county.  I’ve been in the military for 20 years up until last year. Moreover, I retired in January 2021. In that time, I did 18 years of Disaster Response and Emergency Preparedness both through the emergency management chain but also through the health chain.  I’ve been to probably every course that FEMA has in the last 18 years. So, I have a very in-depth knowledge of responding to any type of disaster say with COVID, any biologicals, any man-made disasters, basically all hazards response. And I brought that knowledge also to the Board of Health when I was both the alternate and then I took a permanent seat after that. And in that time, I’m again working like with the town official’s emergency management agent of Plymouth, working with Kingston and Duxbury and Region 5, Cape Cod, all the areas who I have resources and contacts through, we were all able to set up a best laid out plan should we have to respond to anything like a large-scale vaccination center. That’s really one thing that I brought to the table because I already have all the plans drawn up, I’ve already been through this, I’ve lived it. I’ve done Hurricane Katrina, I’ve worked in Superstorm Sandy, I worked with DMEP Region 1, DMEP Region 2. I worked in the hospital as one of the disaster coordinators as a nurse at Massachusetts General Hospital for seven years. I did the same thing down at John Hawkins in Baltimore when I worked down there. And basically, I have been a jack of all trades for the last 20 years or so. Anything and everything problem-solving, I’ve had to come up with my unit. I’ve been a commander of my unit at one point back in 2014. The reason why I have to leave again was, we were really, really ramping up for last September, December, January time frame where our number skyrocketed and we ended up testing over 23,000 people a month for the month of November, December and January.

[0:35:16]

Dennis Swift

And unfortunately, I couldn’t wholeheartedly commit to the Board of Health at that time. I just took the Associate Safety Officer and Emergency Preparedness Coordinator position at Southcoast, so I’m covering all sites, all medical offices, all hospitals, anything that urgent care, anything that Southcoast deals with that is my new position. The upside to that is it offers me a lot more freedom to take the meetings, to come and help out with anything that I need to be present for which I really couldn’t do before last time. And moving forward, I’ll be able to make more of the Thursday meetings for the planning and stuff that I had trouble with before. So, I have a lot more flexibility and much more open now. That’s pretty much all I wanted to say.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. Any other questions? Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

Mr. Swift, do you see or foresee given that while things have calmed a bit with COVID, do you foresee any possibility that a situation like happened a couple of years ago which caused you to leave the board could happen again for you?

Dennis Swift:

No.

Harry Helm:

Good. There you go. Thank you.

Dennis Swift:

So, this was last December, January is when I stepped down from the board, and it really took me a lot to write that email saying that I wanted to step down because I very much enjoying myself on the board. I got along well with all individuals and I learned some really valuable lessons about maintaining a neutral bias, not having all my personal feelings and emotions get involved when we had to make certain decisions like do we continue on with masks? Do we pass this variance? So, I think being able to do that and know that that’s part of my responsibility has helped me grow in that position and be the most effective member of the board I could be.

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Flaherty?

Patrick Flaherty:

Thank you, and from reading your letter, I just want to make sure it’s still your desire to be the alternate position for this Board of Health or is that–because I wasn’t really sure from what you were saying now if you were looking for the full.

Dennis Swift:

I was a full-time member (inaudible) but I have to go with somebody else that’s also going for that same position.

Patrick Flaherty:

I understood. Yeah, and I brought that up–oh, sorry.

Dennis Swift:

I should say I know (inaudible) [0:38:27]

Patrick Flaherty:

Okay, thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Any other questions? Thank you. Moving on to Dustin Harris. Any questions from the board?

Patrick Flaherty:

For Dustin, the same as the others, just can you please talk about your interest in this role?

Dustin Harris:

Thank you. Chairman Quintal and members of the board, thank you for having me (inaudible) [0:38:27] Since we met back in, I believe it was September, when I asked him to join the board as an alternate member, as a reminder I’m the Director of Psychiatry Operations for Southcoast. Also, a Master’s in Clinical Practice where my specialty is machine learning and location monitoring and advanced analytics. I also served as the Board of Health Liaison Programs for Plymouth Youth Development Collaboration and through the mass candidates through my relationships I’ve built whether it’s my career, my volunteer work at the Board of Health, it’s really about relationships and connecting with non-current residents but all the boards integrating into the work.

[0:40:08]

Dustin Harris:

And I think the biggest opportunity that I need to bring to this Board of Health and that now that we’re approaching through code is using advanced work from grant work. There are a lot of dollars that are out there for health. I’m sure you’re all aware (inaudible) [0:40:29]. There’s even private companies that offer grant and as an member of Plymouth, (inaudible) given the environment and the (inaudible) a homeowner, I have a lesson in course of view as much as I can possibly to make this great community. So, that’s another vision I’m pointing but ultimately, it’s a passion to give back because of everything that’s been afforded to me. It’s something really rewarding for myself.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. So, first we’re going to move to fill the full seat. Okay. Pizarro? Okay. Welcome. How are you doing? Can you hear us? You’re muted, I think.

Harry Helm:

Yes, he is.

Dick Quintal:

There you go. Welcome, you want to tell us a little why you’d like to be on the Board of Health?

Lorenzo Pizarro:

Yes. Good evening, Plymouth Select Board. This is my second time (inaudible) [0:42:18] in the Board of Health. A little bit about myself just a recap, but I’ve been just like Dustin we’ve been in front of you in the past. I’m a transplant from the Midwest. I made Plymouth my new home now for about four years. I live in the Red Brook area, and I’ve always been a big proponent of civics back in the Midwest. I’ve been involved in Ethics Commissions and other Election judge. So, civics has been a big part of my life as well as I’m free now. I have three young adult children. Since the time I’ve been in front of you, folks I’ve been involved in other areas of civics for Plymouth. First of all, I’ve been participating in the Citizen Advisory Council by the Board of Health. Secondly, I’ve been appointed to the Master Plan Task Force, chair there is Steve Bolotin and Vice Chair Glenn MacGregor working through that process and providing my input. And then thirdly, a town leading nominee for Precinct 17 for the upcoming election. So, I have a commitment to civics in the town or city that I live in and this is just another venue for participating in that. I currently work for Cape Cod Healthcare, so there’s a bit of healthcare and public health alignment there. What I can bring to the Board of Health is really to promote more evidence-based public health. The other part of that is segues into legal epidemiology where we tend to look at what laws, mandates, how effective they are in terms of preventing infectious diseases and such. And then thirdly around collaboration in our region.

[0:45:01]

Lorenzo Pizarro:

As a member of Cape Cod Healthcare, we’re involved in a lot of the Barnstable County and the pharmaceutical villages, collaboration with the various villages, and I’d like to see advocate for Plymouth to be a leader among that in terms of our area with Kingston, Brockton and Carver and those other towns nearby. And then lastly is to see alignment with federal and state public health directives. While public health and the Board of Health has a jurisdiction and oversight for local, having a consistent message from federal to state or local to region, mitigates any kind of confusion and mismatch messaging and misinformation that we’ve seen in the past two years during this pandemic. So, in short, I think being part of the Board of Health aligns with my personal and career motivations as well as rounding out my involvement in civics with the town I live in. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. Any questions to Mr. Pizarro? Thank you. Okay. We’re ready to vote for the first full seat. Absolutely.

Patrick Flaherty:

I just wanted to say, thank you to the four people who’ve come forward. It seems like we’ve just had tremendously qualified and exceptional Board of Health candidates the last few times we’ve had to make these appointments, and it does make it really difficult. We only have two spots here but after hearing these explanations, you four are definitely exceptionally qualified and if you don’t get on to this, I just hope that you continue to look towards the town and the community and do what you’ve been saying all along, and we just appreciate you coming forward tonight. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Bletzer?

Charlie Bletzer:

I thought we’re going to one–

Dick Quintal:

We’re going to vote for a full seat, and then we’re going to have the alternate seat. Well, it depends on how this goes. You know what I’m saying?

Charlie Bletzer:

Okay. All right. Thank you. That makes him clear.

Dick Quintal:

Betty, did you want to say anything? I was going to say it at the end when Patrick just said so. I’ll echo Patrick. Now, I was just going to wait till we were done, but that’s okay. Okay?

Betty Cavacco:

All right.

Dick Quintal:

All right. For the full seat, Mr. Pizarro, zero votes. Mr. Golden? Three votes. That would be Mr. Bletzer, Mrs. Cavacco and myself. Just so Chris got it on the record. So, now, we have the alternate seat. Yeah, we could actually just in case we have a pancake. Swift? Do we have any votes for Mr. Swift? Full seat, no. Dustin Harris? Two votes. Okay. So, Mr. Golden is the full seat. Now, we have the alternate seat.

Lee Hartman:

Mr. Harris would get the alternate seat.

Dick Quintal:

He would? That’s right, I’m sorry, you’re right. Thank you very much. So, thank you all for applying. All good candidates and as Patrick said, we have a lot of stuff in town going on. We can always use help everywhere. Yeah, I forgot that.

Energy Committee appointments. Now, it said on the agenda it’s one seat, it’s actually two seats. Okay. So, is Christopher Mazzola here? I’ll give it a second, Chris just in case. No? There we go. Yeah, wait a minute. That’s Christopher Mazzola?

[0:50:10]

Betty Cavacco:

No. That’s Mr. Fanning.

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Fanning, okay. So, he’s here. All right. And John Mills?

John Mills:

I’m here.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Thank you. And Mr. Mazzola?

Chris Badot:

I don’t see him.

Dick Quintal:

Well, we can start with the other two gentlemen and if he shows up, just let me know he’s here, Chris, so I know. All right? Mr. Fanning, could you tell us a little why you want to be on the Energy Committee please?

Nathaniel Fanning:

Sure. I said it (Inaudible) [0:50:55] working for Energy Department in their energy efficient program which started in 2010 to save I believe we targeted 15% of the electrical usage for the campus that was successful. The program continued through all my tenure there. I worked with multiple different project types energy consumption sources: biological, mechanical, plumbing, as well as other certification processes such as leads and well to guide the campus through their energy efficiency goals that are internal to building (inaudible). My new role (inaudible) I worked for a mechanical and plumbing engineering company as a (inaudible) service leader. So, I lead the company’s energy and MVP infrastructure service replacements and equipment upgrades as well as their commissioning and existing building commissioning services for private and public sector. I do a significant amount of work with multiple municipalities including Plymouth. I was with the Harbor Master building that was built back in 2019 or so. I wasn’t involved in the direct construction of the building or the commissioning, but I joined late on and I had some additional services for the commissioning of that building. A lot of the clients or the markets that I’ve worked with is with like I said municipality and federal as well as a lot of private sectors such as academic and healthcare. I guess in addition to that, I moved to Plymouth back in September. I grew up in Cape. I have two young kids and wanted to do what I can to help the community.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. Any questions for–Harry?

Harry Helm:

Mr. Fanning, a couple of the recommended appointment criteria not knowledge-wise or anything but our commitment to regular meeting attendance and willingness to work on projects outside of meeting times. And I see that you work in Woburn, Massachusetts. Do you commute to Woburn from Plymouth? And what is the time frame involved in any commuting that you do?

Nathaniel Fanning:

So, I go to the office 2 times a week and I work from home 3 days a week. Moving back, on a good day, it’s maybe an hour and ten minutes there and regardless of when I leave, it’s going to be around an hour and a half back. Two hours to go and two hours back, but that is only two days. I do have to attend the regular meetings as well as work on some common products.

Dick Quintal:

Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Fanning. Mr. Mills?

John Mills:

Good evening, and thank you for having me. I’m here to–I’m a fairly new resident of Plymouth and this is my first opportunity to volunteer my time to help the town and make it even better than it is. I have an engineering background in electrical engineering, so I have the fundamental understanding of a lot of the energy efficiencies and technologies associated with green energy.

[0:55:06]

John Mills:

I was a former business owner there. I had the opportunity to do marketing and this is something that I think is important as we get the residents and businesses involved in reducing their energy consumption making us greener. I’m retired so I do have time to spend for working groups and I have been able to initiate some energy conservation projects within the community that I live in already. So, I am very much committed to green planet and making the cost reductions along with energy reductions. And last, I would like to say that if any support from what would be my wife who calls me the energies are in the household so, thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Well, that’s not a bad thing.

John Mills:

Well, I don’t think so.

Dick Quintal:

Any questions for Mr. Mills or comments? Thank you very much.

John Mills:

You’re welcome.

Dick Quintal:

Chris, is Mr. Mazola in the queue or–

Chris Badot:

No sir.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. So, we’ll start the voting for the first seat. Like I said, there’s going to be two because we had one removal. Mr. Mazzola? Mr. Mills? Five votes. Mr. Fanning? Five votes. Well, there’s supposed to be one seat. Do we have to do it again? Chris, we had two people with five votes each so would that be like that is okay?

Chris Badot:

They’ll take the both seats.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Congratulations. I see Mr. Malaguti is out there. He’s on the Energy Committee.

Town Manager’s Report, Mr. Hartman. Slacker. Just so everybody knows, Mr. Brindisi is on vacation and he–we knew that when we hired him that he already had that.

Lee Hartman:

So, I’m just filling in for this week. I have no town manager’s report.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you, Mr. Hartman. Anyone wishing to speak under public comment? Mr. Vautrain [?]?

Charlie Vautrain:

Good evening, Select Board and all the guests in the Hall here–the Courtroom, excuse me. My name is Charlie Vautrain. I’m a Precinct 12 a rep, and I’ve been a resident in town for almost 49 years and I know some of you especially some that walked in. I’m a lot very concerned about the use of the Wood Lot, what seems to be the plan, and I’ve been paying attention along with some other people. So, we know about the letter, but we want to like to know where is that letter going to or whom is it going to? That you put forth a letter is what I understand from the board, and now it’s too bad that Mr. Brindisi is not here because I was going to ask him something, but I guess for the record I should say what we’re going to say. When he was here last Tuesday, he seemed to characterize that the letter was a requirement for the proponents to move forward with their plans for a horse track, etc. but I’m pretty well-informed that state law requires a very distinct legal process that the board, that’s you guys, has not met.

For the Racing Commission or Gaming Commission to consider a permit for thoroughbred horse racing, they must receive a letter from the executive branch, in our case the Select Board, approving of a specific location for the track. And to award that letter, the board must hold a duly advertised public hearing. The board must then approve that location and provide a letter to that fact. I am not aware of any public hearing being advertised or being held regarding a letter. The board did not convene a public hearing as far as I know. That having been said, the letter would be open-ended in terms of what is endorsed and not a specific endorsement of the location.

[1:00:07]

Charlie Vautrain:

So, I guess, I feel I’m compelled that the board I feel–excuse me, I’m confused that the Board felt compelled to award this letter with whatever its purpose or contents. And watching the tape, which I’d now done twice because I wasn’t here last week, I was watching it, it seemed that Select Person Betty had a pre-written motion asking for this letter ready to go, and it was clear that because you were reading it, and it’s clear that the two representatives from Boston South who attended the meeting, they knew something about that because they stayed whereas most the people in the room left because they thought the meeting was over, which it wasn’t. So, I think the board needs to rescind their vote for the letter or not let the letter go, noting that Mr. Quintal–sorry, Mr. Quintal made several clear statements indicating that the horse track portion of their agenda was over, which is why people left. we’re talking about transparency and due diligence, which I’ve heard mentioned several times here and also, I was at the County Commissioner’s meeting last week. It wasn’t obvious to me that there really was transparency or due diligence in some parts. So, in general, I think the Select Board should not be superseding the role of other boards and committees too and circumventing them, so they might advance this project. Like you said because we have specific committees and boards that that’s their specific job, the day-to-day issues. So, I guess–also, actually Mr. Serkey is here tonight. Were you going to say anything? No. Okay. But he did ask last Tuesday about have you checked with town council and have the commissioners checked with their counselor or a law firm and also Boston South about the legality of this whole thing? So, have you consulted our town council? And what did they say? I guess, I’m finished. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you, Mr. Vautrain.

Charlie Vautrain:

Okay, you’re welcome.

Dick Quintal:

Anyone else wishing to speak? Let’s take the people that haven’t spoken in the last couple of weeks first, please. I think we have plenty of time. I don’t have nowhere to go.

Evelyn Strawn:

Good evening. As you know, I’m Evelyn Strawn, and I’m here to talk about my concerns about the sensitive area that’s under consideration. I’m certainly sensitive to the need for an increased tax base. As you may know, I’ve served on the Advisory and Finance Committee for a number of years, so I’m painfully aware of what comes in and what goes out. And then in a previous life I have managed a development and a construction company that included site work, so I’m not opposed to development. I just would hope that any development needs to consider the sole source aquifer that we have here in Plymouth. And I’m concerned about the area currently under discussion for development. I realize it’s the county’s plan, but I’m hoping that Plymouth will have the opportunity to weigh in on what this development is. Just to point out that it is within the Zone 3 of the Aquifer Protection Map. It’s also within 500 feet of the Eel River, so this is an important recharge area. A couple of years ago, town meeting approved the purchase of 35 acres on Long Pond Road right across from where this would be located and the reason that the town wanted to purchase this land was protection of the aquifer, so I think that’s another reason.

Dick Quintal:

Is that the Sever property? I’m not–I know the town purchased that too, right?

Evelyn Strawn:

But it was like in the corner of Boot Pond Road and Long Pond Road.

Dick Quintal:

Boot Pond and Long Pond?

Evelyn Strawn:

Yeah. And you’ve also received presentations from DPW about concerns about water pressure from the three wells: the Bradford, Forges Field and Pond Wells and I would be concerned that any development here could have an effect on that water pressure.

[1:05:05]

Evelyn Strawn:

And finally, I just want to say that I’m hoping that the infrastructure and environmental issues will be seriously looked at. As Mr. Vautrain said, there are a number of committees in the area in the town including DPW, DMEA, Planning and the new Water Conservation Committee. So, I think there’s a lot of expertise. And I would hope that you would have the opportunity to listen to them before any developments approved. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Absolutely, thank you.

Virginia Davis:

Virginia Davis, Precinct 4. I just want to clarify something that came up last week. Warren Tripp [?] used Black Feather Horse Rescue. He said he’d spoken to Darlene Nickerson sort of intimating she had supported this project. I’d like to clarify that what she does is rescue horses and rescue horses that have maybe been race horses. I recently spoke to a friend who is an equestrian and owns a farm in Kingston and as a young girl, she worked at the Marshfield Fair. She said often when the race would be over, they went away, they would leave horses, abandon them there. She and her family often went up to Suffolk Downs where horses were abandoned. The humane society I’m sure will get involved with this because racing two and three-year-old horses is cruelty to animals. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you very much. Sir?

Gordon Dunn:

Good evening my name is Gordon Dunn. I live at 85 Warren Avenue, and I’m in Precinct 4. And I’m a 5 to 10-year veteran of the Belmont Stakes. For those of you who don’t know what that is, that’s the 3rd Leg of the Triple Crown. The first being the Kentucky Derby who win that race go on to the second leg, the Preakness in Baltimore win that, you then go on to Belmont Park, New York to race for the Triple Crown. It’s the longest race. And generally, the winners of the previous two don’t win the Belmont.

What’s wrong with horse racing? It kills horses. As of March 31, 2022, 81 thoroughbreds in the United States died on or at American racetracks. I’m not going to go through the list of them, but I thought I might start with a few. I’ll mention the name of the horse, the racetrack and what happened.

On March 4th, a horse by the name of Stealth Fighter running at a track called Oak Lawn in Arkansas vanned off. That means he was ambulanced off the racetrack and euthanized. I’ll describe the euthanization process when I finish. On March 9th, at Gulfstream Racetrack in Florida, a horse by the name of Awesome Remix suffered a catastrophic injury fell and died. On March 12th at Los Alamitos in California, a horse by the name of Ballet Royalty suddenly died at the end of the race. He was five years old. At Rillito Racetrack near Tucson, Arizona, a horse by the name of Shea Ifs was injured at the wire and died. At Belmont Park on March 14th, a horse by the name of Here Comes Angelina collapsed and died. He was two years old. A horse by the name of Dr. Grant on March 18th at the Charles Town Racetrack in West Virginia was fatally injured and euthanized on the track.

[1:10:14]

Gordon Dunn:

At Rillito again, a horse by the name of the Lost Charlie was injured after the wire and died. On March 22nd at Belmont Park, New York, a horse named Steadfast Love suffered a humeral fracture, muscle atrophy and died. A horse by the name of Dr. De Vera’s Way on March 25th at Charles Town, West Virginia eased up with a fatal injury during the race and died. At Aqueduct in New York not too far from New York City, Cazilda Fortytales on March 26 collapsed fatally, five years old and died. And finally, Noble Thought March 26th at Belmont was injured, euthanized on the track. Euthanization of a racetrack or a racehorse, I should say, can be by lethal injection or a bullet in the head. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Anyone else wishing to speak on a public comment?

Pat McCarthy:

Pat McCarthy, Precinct five, Town Meeting Member. I’d like to first follow up little bit on what Charlie Vautrain spoke about. Town council in my opinion represents all of us, all of us citizens in Plymouth and I would implore you as our executive branch to have town council review the zoning issues with regards to this property. Also–

Dick Quintal:

Mrs. McCarthy, if I may?

Pat McCarthy:

Yes.

Dick Quintal:

Just for the record, I reached out to them the day after. I believe it was the last Selectboard meeting, Town Council, KP law and asked that very question and Mr. Hartman, I asked this evening and he said they hadn’t got back yet and Lee, I’m going to let you speak because I want you to please just explain so everybody knows what–you know? Thank you. What you can explain, I mean.

Lee Hartman:

Yes, thank you. Lee Hartman, Director of Planning Development for the town. So, yeah, this is at the very beginning stages and my struggle right now is to contact town council without some kind of more concrete proposal before us is probably not beneficial. So, my thought process and town manager’s thought process is once we have something a little more concrete size scale, I mean, they have a little bit of a sketch plan but not a lot that goes with it then we’ll be continuing contacting town council, talking about the local and state permitting that’s needed for this. But at this point, I think it’s a little premature just because sure, we can say a racetrack, but again, I think in the legal world, I’m not sure what that means. So, until we have something a little more concrete to say, “Here’s exactly what it is,” and maybe if for some reason people think it’s exempt from local zoning for them to tell us why they think it is, and we can have that reviewed too by council. But again, without that information, we’re really just having general dialogue without a lot of feedback.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. And I just really wanted to let everybody watch and all that.

Pat McCarthy:

That’s fine.

Dick Quintal:

We are checking on it. It’s in progress.

Pat McCarthy:

Yeah. Okay. I need to clarify my statement then. Okay, thank you. Okay. So, what my question is about the zoning issues with regards to the rural residential parts of the lot. The present lot of the 110 acres as we know from all the presentations and what’s online is about 70% of that is RR. In the RFP of which I don’t think a lot of us had that RFP but maybe in the Board of Selectmen didn’t all get it, but we got it before last week’s meeting. And in that 85 plus page report, it does talk about the entity, Boston South purchasing another 40-acre parcel in the back end and another parcel which I haven’t figured out exactly where that other parcel is, but the 40-acre parcel is also in rural residential.

[1:15:13]

Pat McCarthy:

Also, the lot at 144R Long Pond Road which was sold by the Silva’s to the county is a residential lot. So, that’s my question about the zoning issues with regards in particular to the zoning of the land and what would be the protocol with regard to that? So, also, thanks to the staff at Town Hall, I do have a copy of the two letters. And I’d like for my sake, for the citizens of Plymouth, I’m going to read into the record because some people might not have looked at the town Facebook page yet.

Dick Quintal:

Are these our letters?

Pat McCarthy:

Yes.

Dick Quintal:

We’re going to read those in a little while.

Pat McCarthy:

You’re going to read it into the record?

Dick Quintal:

Yes, we are.

Pat McCarthy:

Okay. And would you let people know the exact Facebook page address because sometimes people have trouble with that?

Dick Quintal:

I agree with you.

Pat McCarthy:

Thank you. We agree on something tonight. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

We do. Mr. Badot, tomorrow would you please upload all documents as pertain to the RFP that the county put out? Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? And then you second.

Mia Marsocci:

Hi, my name is Mia Marsocci. I live in Plymouth. I’ve come here my whole life. My grandparents had a cottage chair, and I’ve lived here permanently for about 18 years. My concerns are obviously for the treatment of the horses in the racing but also, I have a daughter who goes to PCIS. I’m concerned about the element it would bring in close proximity to both our high schools and PCIS. Also, the traffic problems on Long Pond Road, I have a real concern about. But more importantly, I also have a concern about the element of people that will come to Plymouth to gamble. Will there be resources that will be worked into the budget or grants that will address gambling addiction? I think that the pictures show beautiful people having cocktails and beautiful conference rooms and that’s not the reality as we’ve seen in places such as Suffolk Downs. That’s a real concern for somebody who has a teenage daughter who will live or go to school and live. I live in Mayflower Street in close proximity to this. She gets off the bus alone, walks up home, how will I know, you know, we already battle certain elements and things like that adding another thing? I think, maybe thinking of different areas of revenue, I know we need to bring revenue into this town. I hope to live in this town forever maybe a music tent such as South Shore Music, something that can be controlled, what kind of element is coming there, what kind of shows are coming there at certain dates like those types of things. I’m not saying that that’s the issue but a race, a casino, any sort of thing like that. I have real concern with as a tax paying member of society in Plymouth. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

I’m sorry, I didn’t get your name. I couldn’t hear you.

Mia Marsocci:

Mia Marsocci.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you very much, Mia.

Mia Marsocci:

Thank you.

Steve Bjorklund:

Is this just about the horses or–

Dick Quintal:

Whatever you–well, within reason, come on up, let’s hear it. Just identify yourself for the record.

Steve Bjorklund:

Sure, Steve Bjorklund, 861 Main Street in Norwell, Massachusetts. Although I have some ties to Plymouth, I own quite a bit of property down here. And just for the record, I don’t have a horse in the race. I’m actually here to talk about conservation rules and regulations for just a moment if I can. And I know it’s gone out to review and I actually have a final copy of the March 2022 version of what the Conservation Commission actually voted to not adopt this yet, because they’re still going through changes after the consultants have reviewed it. And as some of you know, I spent a considerable amount of time going through these to try to make sure that you guys end up with really good regulations and the commission understands that as well.

The problem I have is really kind of what’s going on with the consultant and as you had mentioned before, the transparency of the process that we’re going through to get this final document. Once the consultant reviewed it, there were changes that were made to the document and that’s what’s now in the final document in front of me.

[1:20:04]

Steve Bjorklund:

And there are issues in here about Appendix C, which is the changes that the Commission has said that they’ve made. If you were a normal citizen, not me, but a normal citizen, you would go there and see that something’s changed in quotes like water discharge area in quotes, and you go to the section where they changed it, and it refers to water recharge areas. So, this type of small issues, there’s no definition of a recharge area, there’s no definition of a discharge area, but they’re going back and forth on these. I don’t think the consultants have reviewed that issue. I don’t know exactly when that was changed, but I’ll get to an area of jurisdiction, and they’ve added in the buffer zone resource area in there, which is not allowed under the bylaw. So, I really think that they need to change the bylaw prior to adopting these regulations so that they’re consistent with the bylaw which is what the bylaw says rather than making these changes which they’re going to then go to town meeting and say, “Well, we already have these changes. Now, you really should change the bylaw to match the regulations that we have rather than do it the other way.” So, it puts a little bit more pressure on Town Meeting. But again, and I’m not going to talk for too long on this but under section 3B activities subject to regulation, it says, “Any activity proposed or undertaken which will constitute removing, filling, dredging or altering any area specified in Section 3A1 through section 3A7.” Okay? There is no section 3A7. All right? That was removed.

Number two, “Any activity proposed or undertaken within the buffer zone resource area,” which hopefully we don’t have, “as defined in section 3A6.” There is no section 3A6. I’m on page 3. Okay? There are 93 pages in the document. Some of the Selectmen are aware that there’s some outcry as to what’s going on as far as septic systems on the beach are concerned.

Dick Quintal:

I was going to ask that, yeah.

Steve Bjorklund:

That’s a huge item. Back on May 11th of 2021, we had a meeting with the Conservation Commission, and they were using this footprint theory in order for people to put title five systems in, the Board of Health should be the one that directs what goes on, not the Conservation Commission. I understand as of today they’ve gone back and talked to Mr. Vacca, and Mr. Vacca is probably on a Zoom meeting right now or later this evening going to recommend that this be, this word in footprint be taken out, and it should be that not increased in flow. Personally, I think they shouldn’t have anything about septic systems in the conservation regulations. It should all be in Board of Health, but this was voted by the Conservation Commission on May 11th and then Mr. Vacca then met with the Board of Health in June, I think June 8th, and then it was back on the agenda as something that they were going to talk about in Flood Hazard District Zone VE, but it’s actually VEV: dunes and barrier beaches, but it’s not listed correctly, so they’ve only changed it in one of those which is just the VE District. So, it then got changed back again to the footprint theory. But I’ve reviewed every single meeting from May of last year until today, there is no vote to rescind the May 11th vote and that should still stand. This document is a complete mess. They have to get the consultant back involved again, they have to ask the specific questions in a public meeting with the consultant present rather than having a meeting with the conservation agent and the chairman behind closed doors. That’s not fair to the citizens in this town. It’s actually not even fair to the other members of the Conservation Commission because as I go through this, I don’t think they understand what they’re voting for or voting against. They have to get this document accurate. I have spent, I can’t even tell you how much time for zero cost to the citizens of the Town of Plymouth. I urge the Selectmen to stay involved in this and make sure it’s a hundred percent accurate before you allow them to vote this thing through. That’s all I have to say. Thank you for your time.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you very much. Mrs. Cavacco?

Betty Cavacco:

So, thank you, Steve, and I know that Mr. Bose forwarded your email to me and I actually have it written down, and I don’t know how we need to proceed, but some of the new bylaws in that conservation document actually allows taking of property if they can’t replace their septic system.

[1:25:11]

Betty Cavacco:

So, I don’t think the town or anyone else should be taking someone’s property without the full benefit. There are many ways to get rid of or bypass a septic system and I know a lot of places down on the beach areas they’re doing tight tanks and things like that. So, I don’t know what the tool would be for us to have them review this or if there’s something that we need to talk to. I know Mr. Hartman left for the Planning Board meeting, but how do we move forward so all these concerns are addressed?

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

A proper procedure for moving forward would be to make it an agenda item, in my mind. Agenda items are noted to the residents prior to the meeting, and they have the opportunity to attend via Zoom or in presence and give their opinions and listen to their opinions, and it would also give the Committee an opportunity to explain the various changes that they’re making, why they’re making them and also for us to have gotten the documents prior and be able to review, so we can ask appropriate questions. In my mind, that’s the first step.

Betty Cavacco:

Well, can we require the Conservation Committee to come before us?

Dick Quintal:

We could ask. I’m sure that they don’t–maybe send them a letter or have Chris asked Derek to send them an email or Chris an email and say, “We have concerns with some of the rules and regs that they’re doing,” and rather wait till they’re finished and then have a little skedaddle over before they vote and tell them they can’t vote and why don’t we get an update of where they’re at and give them a chance to respond and then go from there. So, if they feel that coming in is the way to do it and open it up, that’s not an issue but at least reach out to them like that.

Harry Helm:

Just real quickly, Mr. Hartman isn’t here and he would know this and I can’t quite remember it, but the committee agreed in holding off on voting. You’ll remember? Don’t quote me on this, but I think it’s at least May. I think it’s June. So, it’s not like they’re going to be voting this next week, so.

Steve Bjorklund:

I might be able to clarify that a little bit. What they agreed to do and hopefully I’m not misspeaking in case a Conservation Commission member is watching this, they’re going to vote them in before June 1st, but they’re not going to implement them, they’re not going to become effective until June 1st. That’s my understanding and that’s what’s been in the minutes. So, they could vote them at any point in time. I thought they were going to vote on the other night. Luckily, there was enough stuff that was confusing that it was a 4 to 3 vote. So, they are still working on them again tonight. It’s back on the agenda again. Hopefully, I can make it onto the Zoom meeting before they discuss them so that I can continue to watch, but I believe that they were–I believe they were trying to do something by the end of April, I think, as far as taking a vote and then just having them become the regulations effective as of June 1st, but I really think that if the Board of Selectmen had retained the consultants, you should have a final document in front of you from the consultant with all of the recommendations of the consultant not necessarily just the ones that made it into the regulations, but it should be everything that the consultant did for the Board of Selectmen should come to you because I believe there are items the consultant requested that didn’t make it to the final document. And I think it’s important that the consultant is the one that is the professional that should be telling them what the right way to do it is. Not that I’m saying that the commission isn’t capable of having their meetings and making decisions and things like that, but writing rules and regulations is not a simple thing when it comes to the conservation stuff. And again, you saw 3 pages, there’s 93 of them. I mean, I got to go through every one of them again, but I don’t know whether that’s the final document again or not. And I’d like to see a final document that this is it, and then I can review that and get that somehow back to the commission and say, “These are the issues that I still see.”

[1:30:09]

Steve Bjorklund:

And it might just be typos, it doesn’t matter. If it’s going to be a document for the Town of Plymouth to live by, it should be accurate, and it’s clearly not accurate. So, thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Thank you. Betty?

Betty Cavacco:

Yes, Mr. Chairman and through you, Chris, can you get a hold of that final report from the consultant for the Conservation Committee and make sure that the board all has it? And if I remember correctly–

Harry Helm:

Can I make a quick on that? Would you request that Mr. Brindisi in his letter request that the consultant attend that meeting as well?

Betty Cavacco:

But if I remember correctly, weren’t the charter–I mean, the Conservation Committee supposed to come back to us?

Dick Quintal:

I believe, but I’m not positive. I’m not positive. So, if we ask them, we’d like to have a joint meet with them before they vote the regulations. That covers it all.

Betty Cavacco:

Perfect, thank you.

Dick Quintal:.

Okay. And we can do that as a docket item. We’ll make it a full, all right. Anyone else wishing to speak on a public comment? Anyone in the queue, Mr. Badot?

Chris Badot:

No, sir.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. We’re going to read the letters, so what we’re going to do is I’m going to stop on the licenses and all that and go right to Committee Liaison Updates first. Anything? Does any updates? Okay. Old business? Mrs. Cavacco?

Betty Cavacco:

Old business, new business, but it’s the same business. Amongst us, we have discussed before that the optics in this room are horrible.

Harry Helm:

Acoustics.

Betty Cavacco:

Acoustics, optics whatever. I don’t like being up high, so my feet don’t even reach the floor when I’m sitting here. So, one of the things that I believe that as a board we should do is move our meetings to the Great Hall. It’s more comfortable for people to sit in chairs, the acoustics are much better, people can hear everything that we’re saying, and I think until we figure out the best way to address the situation in here. I think it’s just a disservice to either people in here or people watching, so I’d like to move to the Great Hall.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Duly noted. Come on up, Mr. Vautrain.

Charlie Buetrain:

I worked for the Duxbury School Systems for 33 years as the audiovisual person and that’s when I met Mr. Quintal, when he was a freshman. And it is, the room is a tough room with hard surfaces, but it’s the person, I hate to do this but whoever’s out there controlling it, you get people that come up here and some of them are way too loud, and they’re supposed to react. Like when you go to a concert, the person mixes things. Okay? So, I am not impressed by whoever has been running the sound system out there because I really was tempted to get up and go out and say, “Hey, look turn this one down, turn Harry up because he’s kind of quiet,” maybe they’re not, maybe they’re sleeping. I don’t know. Anyway, I do agree that the room, the acoustics are pretty bad especially if someone gets too close to the sound and really bellows which we have, and you hear that noise, that’s the letter P in a word because they’re too close to the microphone. They should be about this far away and then the sound is okay, but I would agree that the great room is more comfortable. So, if you want to not be like judges, that’s the place to go. Okay?

Betty Cavacco:

Like I said, my feet don’t even hit the floor.

Charlie Vautrain:

And the guy that came in here, that was their head engineer. They walked in and walked over behind the TV sets from PACTV. I’m going to go talk to him too. Okay?

Dick Quintal:

Thank you.

Charlie Vautrain:

You’re welcome.

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

Just in terms of the audio, it is not just in this room, it is the people watching on PACTV. They can’t hear the people on Zoom, and they can’t hear several of the Selectmen, and they could not hear very much of what was said regardless of whether we could hear it in here.

[1:35:00]

Harry Helm:

So, I would just add on to what Mr. Vautrain said that there is a control room directly connected basically to PACTV in the Great Hall, and it seems that those problems do not occur for meetings held there. So, I mean, I think we need to evaluate that until something is done with this room.

Charlie Vautrain:

Well, I agree with Mr. Helm. That’s a really good control room behind there. Actually, in the past, I’ve been in there and done it when I was working for them a little bit. And you’re right, they could solve it out there if they had a monitor system set up out there, so they could hear what we’re hearing in here. And because you don’t want to hear it coming through the door, they should be wearing headsets. But anyway, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t hit the podium. All right. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. Anything else in the old business? I want to just let everybody watching know and at home that the talks are continuing on the stack at Cordage Park. So, I know there’s been an order issued but talks continue. I’d just take a moment on the old business to thank the moderator, the assistant moderator, all the committee’s boards, citizens for all great job Saturday. It was a healthy debate. The only thing I believe that we didn’t get was a motor for the police boat, but I heard we got an air mark for Mr. Muratore and we will have the motor for the police department. And we do need that motor because they’re the first responders to the Entergy plant or Holtec and that’s in the agreement, and they probably didn’t know that and that’s okay, but I just wanted to report to everybody that they are going to get their motor for the Police Department.

And I just want to just touch on one other thing with town meeting. we were all in the Great Hall, and I’ve been to a few town meetings in my time and I have to say I was very impressed with the whole thing anyway but the way that town staff, the department heads in that room actually worked together. I think some of us noticed it. I had two or three department heads, two that I know of come up and comment on the teamwork from staff all working together. As issues came up, they did it and until somebody brings it to your attention, it was very nice and thank you to old staff. Anything else under old business? Okay.

Letters? We have several and this one here is I think we should read this in the record. She actually handwrote one to each and every one of us so when someone takes the time to do that, do you mind reading because my eyes? Okay.

Betty Cavacco:

This is for the Board of Selectmen:

Attn: Richard Quintal

Dear Richard,

It has come to our attention that there is a plan to develop property off Long Pond Road. We have heard that it is possibly a horse track or casino or in worst case scenario both. We would like to voice our strong objection. The fight over casinos and communities have been fought many times. It is clear that when a casino moves in, the community loses. While we are blessed to live in a community with so much open space, we are required to be the careful guardians of these spaces and see that they are used wisely.

Our fear is that the Horse Racing Track Casino will forever change the makeup of our beautiful historic coastal town.

Sincerely,

William and Kathleen Murphy

We have received a letter from Boston South, and we also have the letter from Chairman Quintal and I will read the letter from Boston South first.

Chairman Richard Quintal and members of the Board, Boston South Real Estate and Development LLC is pleased to announce the commencement of our Public Outreach Program beginning with a public input meeting on Tuesday, April 26th from 6:00 to 9:00 pm at Plymouth Memorial Hall. This will be the beginning of an extensive series of open forums, which will provide guidance to our development team as we begin the long process of analyzing the County Wood Lot and surrounding areas, examining current resources and infrastructure as our starting point.

[1:40:15]

Betty Cavacco:

The sole objective of this first public forum is to gather valuable information from the residents of Plymouth and Plymouth County whose assets we have been charged to evaluate solely and at our own risk and expense in the coming three or more years. We at Boston South believe this extensive due diligence and evaluation process will result in a positive outcome for all. With each subsequent forum, we will directly engage the public in educational programs, which identify all challenges and opportunities that need to be addressed and explore as we move forward together in this partnership for years to come.

Boston South has a simple ideology pertaining to development and partnership with our host communities, which focuses on four critical points and processes: data, analysis, consensus and action. Boston South is committed to meeting our responsibility under the contractual agreement with the Plymouth County Commissioners. Beyond our responsibility as outlined in that agreement, it is our commitment to you, Mr. Chairman and esteemed members of the board, the citizens of Plymouth and all of Plymouth County. We look forward to taking our first steps over the next four to six months, and we are working diligently to gather all the data needed to get started.

Respectfully yours,

On behalf of Boston South Team.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you, Mrs. Cavacco. That’s on the town’s website.

Betty Cavacco:

And it’s also on the town’s social media page, Facebook page. And this is from the Chairman, Board of Selectmen.

To whom it may concern;

It has come to the attention of the Plymouth Board of Selectmen that the submission by Boston South Real Estate and Development LLC to the Plymouth County Commissioner’s recent RFP was approved for property located in the Town of Plymouth known as the Plymouth County Wood Lot by way of unanimous vote on March 31st, 2022. (See accompanying certified vote, and that was the county commissioners).

We wish to inform all pertinent state officials, agencies, boards and commissions that the Plymouth Board of Selectmen voted Tuesday, March 29th resulting in a three to two vote in the affirmative to support Boston South Real Estate and Development LLC as it begins their due diligence to determine the best uses of the Plymouth County Wood Lot.

As this is just the beginning of a long process, we do not specifically endorse any particular use for the Wood Lot at this time. The Plymouth Board of Selectmen does believe as our vote affirms that endorsing the process that Boston South Real Estate and Development LLC has agreed to evaluate and consider all economic opportunities for this county asset at their sole expense and risk as initiated and approved by Plymouth County is in the best interest for our citizens and meets the responsibilities of our office.

Sincerely,

Chairman Richard Quintal.

Dick Quintal:

That is also on the town website and what do you say social media.

Betty Cavacco:

Social media, the Town of Plymouth, Facebook page.

Dick Quintal:

So, we haven’t approved. None of us have approved or shown support for a racetrack in the community. However, I don’t want to get into a debate here because this really is an odd debate. Your concerns are all felt and I hear you. I’m listening to you. I represent all you. We all do actually. And it’s a proposal, it’s not our proposal and I think there’s a lot of confusion out there as far as whose proposal is this? It’s the county’s proposal and the county is going to have to have open sessions, and they will by law on this, and I’m not sure, but I will give you the date as soon as they notify this office of that and that’s where you need to go to also voice your concerns because this was their vote. How it came to me was very, very simple. I called, reached out to Laurie [?] months ago, and I said “Laurie, Dick Quintal, how are you?” and he said, “Good,” and I said “You know, the town hasn’t really put through any economic development packages recently, and it’s something that we like to look at what we are doing.”

[1:45:19]

Dick Quintal:

He said, “Well, I just so happened I was going to reach out to the town.” So, that engaged. So, the meetings I’ve been going to I might meet with him two or three, and it was just conversation. There were no plans, there was no voting, there was nothing in the dark. So, they finally got. They were going to come to the town after they met, and the county voted, then I know there’s a proposal coming. When I knew that, also the press knew that and everyone in this room was pressing me to get it right out here. So, I had asked town staff for us. I was trying to get everything in order. I wanted town staff to hear it all. And every department: Planning, Finance, Environmental, everybody in the room.

Betty Cavacco:

There was over 50 people.

Dick Quintal:

Betty was there too. It was conversation. Nobody got up there and [makes motion]. If it was that, of course it would be open to the open. I mean, open to the public and to everybody else. And ask staff, they were all there, they’re in the same room. Ask the town manager, he was there. So, there was nothing discussed. This is a proposal. Just like any business comes to town and says, “You know what? We want to do that.” What do I say, “Don’t bother me. I’m busy today.” No. I’d like to hear what you have to say. I listened, but it’s not concrete what they’re going to do. That’s what this whole process is about. Environment, there’s high tension wires, there are a lot of issues there. It’s not for this board to decide that. There’s a process. Just like any other developer, they’re going to have to go through it and that’s what they’re starting to do, they call those workshops.

Go ahead, ma’am. I know this is a little, but I don’t want the community torn apart over this because it’s really foolish to do that.

Miriam O’Neal:

Miriam O’Neal, Doten Road, Plymouth. I just want to say that you’re encouraging us to consider transparency, consider we’ll be a part of the whole process and everything, but I’m going to tell you that when we those of us in this room who went to the County Commission meeting last Thursday evening expecting to hear something were shut out. We were shut–please let me finish.

Dick Quintal:

No, I should know.

Miriam O’Neal:

Yeah. We were shut out because the County Commissioners reserve the right to go into closed session whenever they feel like they need to. So, we almost didn’t get any information at all about what had transpired, and I don’t think you can call that transparency. And I don’t think that it’s good for the Board here to be encouraging us to trust the County Commissioners to bring us into the loop if the first thing that they do is go behind closed doors and shut us out and then almost not agree. Finally, when Greg Hanley agreed to talk to us, but then not even let us know what actually happened. We would like to be part of this process, but we need people to be transparent and available to us to explain where are we in the process? What just happened? Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

And I must say I couldn’t agree with you more. Okay? And that’s why I’m speaking to you and explaining to you what really transpired, which isn’t a lot, but enough. So, I would like to make a motion that we send a letter to the county and demand a date where these people can go and ask their questions. Do I have a second?

Betty Cavacco:

Second.

Dick Quintal:

Discussion. All those in favor? Unanimous. I would like to have an answer by next Tuesday. Okay? So–

Betty Cavacco:

Oh, they’re already–excuse me. There already is a date.

Charlie Bletzer:

April 26. I thought you know.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Well–

Betty Cavacco:

No, that’s not the County Commissioners. That’s–

Dick Quintal:

No, that’s for the workshop.

Betty Cavacco:

Boston South. I just received a message from our state representative that says in early May. So, when we know when it is.

Dick Quintal:

We’ll let you know. It’ll be on our website. Okay? As soon as we know, we’ll announce it. Okay. So, we’re all done with that. We’re going to go back to–

Betty Cavacco:

Do they have–does anybody have any further questions?

[1:50:05]

Dick Quintal:

Any other questions or comments before we go to our regular business?

Betty Cavacco:

Go ahead.

Female:
I just had a question about what would have happened, and this is just to educate myself, what would have happened if all of you had voted no last week or decided not to move forward? Because the only thing, I’ve heard is a race or a horse racetrack. That’s the only proposal that I’ve seen, and maybe I haven’t done enough research, which I will, but what would have happened?

Dick Quintal:

I am going to–do you have it with you?

Betty Cavacco:

Yeah, sure.

Dick Quintal:

I’m going to let Mrs. Cavacco read that in the record. Just so what we said last week, there was no mention of horse race in it. And I think, I believe the letter is what they’re trying to do, and I could be wrong, but it’s a good question for you to ask them is to try to get some infrastructure money and stuff like that.

Female:
So, if you had voted no last week, would that have been no to any new development or any new proposals or just this one?

Dick Quintal:

Well, we really haven’t got the proposal yet. I know there’s an RFP, but I think that’s going to change. If you look at the, and it’s on the town website now, download that and then look at the end product. If it even gets that far, they might pull out and say, “You know what? No, thank you.” If they don’t get infrastructure money, I don’t see how it’s going to happen because you need to fix the traffic is one of the main things first and this community still holds the drum card, a key. What’s that key? That key is the wastewater treatment plant. That’s the key we hold. We say what ties into that and what doesn’t.

Female:
So, would you say that you and the Select Board or the whatever Select Board at that time has the final say or does the county have the final say?

Betty Cavacco:

Well, we have the final say on what we’ll allow into our system, the town. One of the things that we’ve already addressed and like I said there’s just so much misinformation.

Dick Quintal:

There is.

Female:
I just don’t think there’s enough information that people are filling in.

Betty Cavacco:

Well, absolutely.

Female:
With misinformation, and I agree with you. But–

Betty Cavacco:

I know because like I said, I mean, even just sitting here, I have like 40 notifications.

Female:

I’m sure.

Betty Cavacco:

And it’s kind of sad because people are mean. They’re just vicious and I just–

Female:
There’s no need to be mean or vicious, I agree with that, but people need to get out and vote for their board, and they need to pay attention to the things that you guys are voting on and looking at your voting records and looking at what you’re voting for in the best interest and whose best interest you are voting for. They don’t need to get mean and they don’t need to get vicious, but we need to look at the future of Plymouth. I’ve been coming to Plymouth since the ‘70s where there was nothing here, nothing but like one little restaurant to where it’s booming and a great place to live. Plymouth is an amazing place. You have waterfront, rural, South Plymouth, everything, but there’s no information, a rush to judgment people feels. I just wondered what it would have meant if you had put off the vote last week and said, “We don’t have enough information. The residents of Plymouth don’t have enough information. Can we take a minute?” Was that an option? What would have happened if you had done that?

Betty Cavacco:

Well, I mean, I don’t know if you or anyone wants to answer. I mean, we want the process to begin and it’s unfair to say that–I mean, you’ve heard the example from me a million times. I wasn’t for certain developments that have come into town, but as part of the executive branch when that comes to us, we have to be able to offer everybody the same treatment. So, when someone comes to us whether I like it or not and trust me, there’s a lot of things that have come here that I don’t care for. But whether it comes to us or not, we still have to give people the same ability as we’ve given to everyone else. Now, I made the motion last week and I specifically took out horse racing because I personally don’t believe that we’ve had enough information to move forward with that. Now, whether I personally agree with it or not, that’s not the point. Yes, the RFP anchors with horse racing, but I don’t care what the RFP anchors with because that’s not the motion that this Board put forward. And I can read that into the record for you, if you’d like to hear what it was that the motion was.

[1:55:06]

Female:
Well, I just don’t understand why all we’re hearing about is the horse racing if there are other options out there. And I will do my own, I don’t want to take up the board’s time or the town’s time, but why is it only horsing racing that we’re hearing about at this point?

Betty Cavacco:

Well, I think they’re hearing about horse racing because that’s what people are latching on to.

Dick Quintal:

Right.

Female:
Okay. That’s fair.

Betty Cavacco:

So, I mean–

Dick Quintal:

It’s only going to take a second.

Betty Cavacco:

It’s only going to take a second. And this is what I moved on last week and what the board moved on.

I moved that the board expressed support for the conceptual project of a sports and entertainment complex service answer and associated service amenities in the Town of Plymouth to be located on approximately 110 acres of land on Camelot Drive and Long Pond Road also known as the Wood Lot. Subject to the project proponent obtaining all necessary licenses, permits and approvals and maintaining compliance with all applicable statutes, codes, regulations and bylaws.

There was nothing in there about we’re going to bring in a horse race. I mean, I–

Female:
Where did that come in then?

Betty Cavacco:

It’s just where it’s–well, their RFP states a horse track. That is what they presented, but they also presented in the meeting that we had, which by the way there was over 50 people. There was planning, there was economic development, there was the chamber of commerce, there was a bunch of people there. Yeah, the foundation, the economic foundation. So, we had a screen and they were showing us all the things and hotels and venues and sport. They want a minor league baseball team, an international soccer team and granted, if their cornerstone of this whole project is for horse racing, that is not what this board moved on, so.

Dick Quintal:

Right.

Female:
Okay. Thank you for clarifying. I appreciate it.

Betty Cavacco:

No problem.

Dick Quintal:

No problem, Charlie and Patrick, did you want to say something?

Charlie Bletzer:

I’d like to say something and it’s going to be real quick.

Dick Quintal:

Your microphone. Try this one, Charlie. Try that one. Take it easy. Mr. Vautrain said take it easy.

Charlie Bletzer:

I’d like to respond to why I voted. I voted to move the process along so that we can get more information. And I’m going to tell you, I’m not going to vote for anything on that parcel of land unless the state, federal somebody agrees to fix our roads. They need millions of dollars to fix the roads there at Exit 5. I’m not for anything there until those roads are fixed. Our housing developments and nothing but we need some economic development. We need to get some commercial tax to stabilize our residential taxes. So, we have to look at any developers coming in. That doesn’t mean we’re going to okay it. And unfortunately, people are going to think what they want to think because people have made this political. And that’s not, I’m sorry, but that’s not right. We have to do it in the best interest of Plymouth. Our seniors have a hard time staying in their homes because the taxes keep going up. We need to look for ideas that aren’t going to hurt the environment. We’re listening to everybody out there. I get it, animal cruelty. Everything you’ve said, we hear it all. Okay? Environmental things, we hear it. But hopefully, this group can come up with the right development and we can vote something, and it’ll work. That’s if they get the roads fixed. So, that’s it. You want to ask me a question?

Chris Badot:

She wants to say something.

Charlie Bletzer:

Okay. That’s up to the Chairman.

Dick Quintal:

Yeah, that’s fine. Come on.

Virginia Davis:

Virginia Davis, Precinct 4 Rep. With due respect for the vote that took place last week, it was a three to two. So, two of the Selectmen sitting there: Mr. Helm, Mr. Flaherty voted against approving it then. I think I’d like to know why they voted against it. Would someone be willing–either one of you be willing to speak why you voted no at that point last week? Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Patrick? Patrick was in the queue, Harry. Calm down. Go ahead.

[2:00:15]

Patrick Flaherty:

I voted against it because like it’s been alluded to here, we’re looking for information on what we’re being asked to vote on. At that time, despite asking the petitioner for the RFP response and all the materials over the weekend, I still hadn’t received a single piece of paper from the petitioner or anyone through the town on this project. So, that motion was unexpected to me. I hadn’t seen it and I didn’t really understand what it was that I was being asked to vote on at the time. Aside from whatever the concept of the project was, that was my initial reason why I voted no last week.

Now, of course, we’ve learned a lot of information since last week and I did want to–I had something else, I just wanted to share and that we’ve talked a lot about what’s been learned since last week, and we did get that RFP response back, which is here. It is very true that there’s many pieces to this large project that need to be worked out, but there’s one thing that we are a 100 percent certain of is that this development group is looking to put in a thoroughbred horse racetrack. We’ve said it. It says it right here, the developer would like to seek to enter a long-term lease with the anchor activity on the site to always consist of thoroughbred racing, and no one’s disagreeing with that. I’m really happy to hear that Boston South is setting up public forums and plans to conduct surveys of Plymouth residents. In their letter that was read just a few minutes ago, they did say that they have an ideology pertaining to development and partnership with our host communities, which focuses on four critical points: data, analysis, consensus and action. Where Boston South is looking for data and Plymouth residents in two meetings and a number of emails that have come in and phone calls and outreach are looking to share their voice. I brought it up last week and I wanted to just bring it up again because this would probably be the last day we could discuss this, is that a non-binding ballot question six weeks from now would give us a temperature check of where the town is at this moment.

There’s nothing saying that in May of ‘23 we couldn’t also have a similar question, which would show how sentiments may have changed, remain the same after a year of outreach and educational programs from Boston South. It’ll cost the town zero dollars to let our residents share their voice on this development concept that they have said will always consist of thoroughbred horse racing. So, I made the motion at last week’s meeting and since then we’ve learned some new information that I’ve said now, I still support adding this question to the ballot and if my colleagues want to discuss this, I’d be happy to do that again, but where this is the last day potentially that we could do this, I felt the need to just raise this up again. And if there’s any discussion, where it goes from there is fine.

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

Well, I think Mr. Flaherty expressed my reasons, Ginny. They’re very similar. I will tell you that the possible difference between the two of us is I did not request materials because I expected they would be provided to us. I don’t think that a group of investors approaching the Town of Plymouth should expect that the Board of Selectmen contact them to get the appropriate information. It would seem to me, having in my career presented major proposals to important people, I never relied on them asking me what I would send them. I got it to them. Secondly, and I think admittedly probably by the Boston South people at this point that presentation last Tuesday in my mind was a non-presentation. There was no substantive information. There was nothing. So, then I dovetail with what Mr. Flaherty said.

[2:05:01]

Harry Helm:

In terms of a ballot initiative, Patrick, I have a question for you. Because I am actually in favor of one, but the question becomes: when is the appropriate time for one? Why do we have to make a decision to put it on the May ballot tonight as opposed to putting it on as an agenda item for next week so that the residents of Plymouth would know that we were discussing it? Because I believe there is still time after that meeting. Perhaps I’m wrong, if someone would like to clarify that.

Dick Quintal:

Mrs. Cavacco?

Betty Cavacco:

I believe it’s 35 days before we can get a ballot question, but I think we could have a compromise here. I love ballot questions obviously, but we don’t have anything concrete to put on the ballot. So, my thought would be and if the board can discuss it, why not have a special ballot, special election, whatever it has to be for a non-binding ballot question after we receive what the proposal is? I mean, we can do it. I mean, if they–whenever they move along, they can do it. We can have it this summer. We can have it in November. We can have it whenever, but there’s nothing for us to vote on. So, do you know what I’m saying? I don’t know. I’d love to see something and I understand the RFP, but this board has motioned that the horse track is not what we consider moving forward with. So, I mean, as far as I’m concerned, they could say they were going to build Disney World. The motion was very specific to, as far as I’m concerned, kind of exclude a Horse Track whether that’s their anchor or not. So, I just think that I’d like to have more information so that if they turn around and come back and say to us, “Oh, it’s going to be a horse track and this is all there is,” then yeah, if we knew that by the midnight tonight or whenever the 35 days is, that’s completely different. But we don’t even know what they’re coming back with. So, that’s my thought.

Patrick Flaherty:

In their RFP, they talked about where the money’s coming from. It’s horse money. It’s Keeneland. It says always consists of thoroughbred racing. I believe on April 28th at the Gaming Commission is an agenda item that references a new racing facility in Massachusetts. It’s on the agenda. They’re trying to move this forward as they would, as quickly as they can. So, I believe we have a concept and I think that’s something that’s really, really important to this that there are two separate questions here. There’s a question of logistics, roads, clover leaves, water, schools, addiction all these things that they are going to bring forward and try and mitigate from a thoroughbred horse racing to gambling facility. And then there’s the concept of a thoroughbred horse racing and gambling facility in Plymouth. We all know that this is their intent. It’s black and white clear that this is what they want to bring forward, and I don’t think anyone is objecting to that. So, the concrete question is the concept of the thoroughbred horse racing track, and it’s non-binding. It’s a temperature check. I would think if they brought this forward as a non-binding question and then a year goes by, and we have it again, and they can show, well, maybe it was here and here before they’ve done the educational outreach, and they show that it has flipped one way or the other, stayed the same, they can show that they’ve really made a progress here.

[2:10:04]

Patrick Flaherty:

They call out they want data. Well, this is data. This is a zero-dollar cost by adding it to the May instead of having an 18-precinct special. I think we’ve heard from a number of residents that want to share their voice in different ways and this is one, and that’s why I wanted to bring it up again tonight.

Betty Cavacco:

And just so you know, Patrick, I actually talked to Mark Rich today and the gaming licenses are all done for 2022. The people that are going forward to the Gaming Commission had to have their application in last year, and this organization will not be able to file any kind of application until 2023, so.

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Bletzer?

Charlie Bletzer:

The non-binding question, I have no problem with that at all. I’d like to see that on the ballot, but I’d love to see it when we get a bigger vote, which is in November for the state election. We can have this, which was Betty was talking about a special ballot on that day in November. We can do a special ballot. It’s separate from–

Dick Quintal:

It’s going to be separate.

Charlie Bletzer:

Separate from the state ballot and then we get more–it’s a much bigger, larger turnout of our population. So, as we know, unfortunately, at town elections, we get 10% to 12% of our population. So, I’m all for that. If we do that in November, it’s still plenty of time because they’re not even going to get a license before 2023. So, I’d be all for that.

Dick Quintal:

I mean, it’s going to be the wish of the board anyway, but I mean does anyone here honestly–has anybody built anything in this town? I mean, this is massive. This is never going to be done in four or five months or a year. This is going to be 2, 3 years on the planning stage but go on Patrick.

Patrick Flaherty:

I think that’s a fantastic idea. Can I offer another compromise back? Could we make a motion to do that on the November? And if for some reason, we’re not allowed to do that, state/federal next to a town ballot, we could agree that the next closest time would be the May. So, it’d be November, we’d try for that, but if we can’t then–

Betty Cavacco:

May of ‘23?

Patrick Flaherty:

May of ‘22. So, if we can do a municipal question at the November, I agree. I think we’d get a lot more people involved, and I think that’s a fine idea, if you can do that. I had reached out through our state representative to the Secretary of State and I know that we can’t do it on the state and federal, but if we can do a municipal question in November, I think that’s a fantastic idea and–

Betty Cavacco:

I did.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Wait a minute.

Patrick Flaherty:

Yeah. So, I would say that’s all right. We could do November but if we can’t do November, that we would commit to hearing in May.

Betty Cavacco:

So, I talked to our acting assistant town clerk today and I talked to Larry, and he said “Yes, it can be done. It has to have a separate for the town, the municipality. It can be done in November.” And like I said, because I want a non-binding question. I just want to be able to have enough information that people can decide because I’m not convinced it’s going to be horse racing.

Dick Quintal:

Yeah, I’m not voting for horse racing, I’ll tell you right now. Is that what you want to hear? Is that what you want to hear? All right, you heard it.

Charlie Bletzer:

Mr. Chairman.

Dick Quintal:

I will not vote for horse racing. Now, you heard it.

Charlie Bletzer:

I’ll make the motion right now that we put it on for non-binding.

Dick Quintal:

Can I say something before you start with the motion, please?

Charlie Bletzer:

You can second the discussion.

Dick Quintal:

Well, okay. Go ahead, that’s fine.

Charlie Bletzer:

So, I’m going to make the motion that we put a non-binding question on the ballot in November, and if it can’t be done, which I believe it can be done on a separate ballot, but if we’re not, then we’ll do it in May. The question is–

Patrick Flaherty:

I second it and offer the language just very simple. And so, the question and like we did with our previous questions it goes through council and that type of thing, but it’s very simple because we’re talking about a concept. That’s right, we don’t have a whole project. It says, do you support a development project that includes thoroughbred horse racing in Plymouth?

[2:15:04]

Dick Quintal:

Is that it? Okay.

Betty Cavacco:

Can I answer now?

Dick Quintal:

Mrs. Cavacco, go ahead, you’re next.

Betty Cavacco:

No. I’m just saying, can I answer the ballot question now?

Dick Quintal:

Well, yes, same thing, discussion.

Betty Cavacco:

I mean, that was kind of the sadness that–I mean, I know, I felt because no one asked us. I get so many phone calls and so many messages every day, no one picked up the phone and said, “Betty, do you support horse racing?”

Dick Quintal:

They don’t call me either.

Betty Cavacco:

No. I don’t think anyone called any of us. So, I think that we talk about communication and I love communication, and I’m always available to communicate with anyone. No one picked up the phone and said that. They just assumed that this is some kind of little pet project that we want to move forward with horse racing. For me personally and obviously, the chairman said, I’m not for it. I would never. I love animals. I have friends that have horses and that was the first words I said to them after I said, “Hello. Nice to meet you. There’s a problem with horse racing.” So, I think people need to know that and stop with the rhetoric of we’re trying to hurt them and we’re trying to move forward because someone’s getting their pockets lined and someone’s–it really is ridiculous. I mean, we put a lot of effort into what we do here, and I don’t think anyone does it for the glory, put it that way. So, just so you know that.

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

Yeah, in the absence of information, people are going to make up their own stories in their own minds. And they have a right to do that, and they have a right to express it. And if we’re going to engage them in whatever manner that we do, we should expect that there are going to be times when they disagree with us, when they make statements that we just don’t agree with. But here’s the problem, with the lack of information and perhaps the misunderstanding of the difference between Plymouth County and Plymouth, the town and the civics issues of all this, there’s a simple mathematical equation here. It’s called 1 + 1 = 2. One, Keeneland’s lead in this project plus not the other number one, the statement that Patrick, read in the RFP response, 1 + 1 = 2 and 2 is a racetrack. So, I mean, that’s why this happened. Okay? The complete lack of information yet at the same time a vote on something in the environment of a lack of information. So, I think it’s important that we, the board who voted to push this ahead understand we need to be more sensitive to that in the future. I mean, we just have to understand that this is the nature of what happens in an ongoing process. Particularly when this is something that is going to impact this community for, I can’t even calculate how long it would be.

Female:

70 years.

Harry Helm:

Okay, 70 years. But the ramifications could go beyond that. I’m very happy that we’re looking at a ballot initiative in November. To that end, would it be possible to have an update on that on next week’s agenda? Because I do believe that if something is awry with November, my calculations are that with the election being on May 21st, 35 days from next Tuesday is May 17th and there would still be time to craft the simple language if we have to push it onto the May ballot. There’s still time.

Dick Quintal:

Can I speak?

Harry Helm:

Yeah.

Dick Quintal:

Thanks, I won’t support at May when this because like you just kept on saying there’s no information. So, you’re going to put something on a ballot that you don’t have the information for. How do you do that? I mean, we just heard how we don’t have information.

[2:20:02]                                                                                                         

Dick Quintal:

Out of fairness in corporate talk, I don’t know of any corporation that goes to any community and spends 2 to 3 million dollars whatever it might cost to put an essential set of plans out there before they even know if they can fix the traffic. I mean, the November one, I can support that, but what if you still have no more information today than you do in November? I would like to say November, but I will also like to say if there isn’t enough information, which there might not be, we want to know what they’re doing, but I’m hoping the workshops would–Lee, did you want to say something?

Lee Hartman:

Yes, please.

Dick Quintal:

Well, let me just finish so I don’t forget because I’m getting old. I am old. So, that being said, we might not have the information to even craft that one. So, then it would be I’d like to leave it open enough, or we could make another motion after that to have it in the following May. You know what I’m saying?

Lee Hartman:

So, just if this was helping, I had an email yesterday from Derek, Town Manager, and he’s indicated that the Gaming Commission would not be able to hear an application until 2023. So, as you think about what you’re doing, I’m not sure if there’s necessarily a big rush to something right away. We do have time here because even to start that process it’s 2023.

Dick Quintal:

So, you understand what I’m saying, Lee? How do we put something on the ballot? You know all the process. Lee hasn’t even seen anything from what group. It might not be the group from Kentucky and these. It could very well just be Boston South. They might pull stakes and say, you know what, if they don’t want it, they’re gone.

Betty Cavacco:

I mean, Boston South is a developer. I mean, they developed and I don’t know if anybody knows it and the only reason why I found out about it is because the Plymouth North Seniors are having their Senior Prom in Quincy at the new golf course. I don’t follow golf, but I guess it’s beautiful and when we were talking, they said that that was their project, and it’s gorgeous but like I said, they’re not dovetailed into horse tracks, so.

Lee Hartman:

So, I’ll meet with Derek. We’ll go over this when Derek comes back on Monday and I think the direction is to try to get it on a ballot as quickly as possible, and we’ll just see how quickly we can move that ahead and–

Dick Quintal:

We’re looking at November, I think. Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

Well, the motion is look at November but if that doesn’t work then to go on May 2022. One of the things that I would just like to say about this, regardless of what they eventually discover, like it’s been pointed out they may find out that the land, the soil and everything they just can’t do a racetrack on it. So, yeah, there are a lot of things: the Gaming Commission, the traffic, there are a lot of things and to kind of turn things in an odd kind of way that nobody’s even talking about here, if the residents of the Town of Plymouth do not want horse racing to be part of this eventual proposal, isn’t it to the benefit of these developers for us to tell them now so that they don’t spend three years and $3 million going down the road? I mean, $3 million that aren’t going to benefit us tax wise in any way, shape or form. It’s just money they are going to have to spend to find out and create a proposal. So, I’m not sure what is wrong in November telling them, okay, regardless of the Gaming Commission closing out its licensing for this year because this is a three-year process, so they could be putting it in next year and that they were probably already planning on doing this. I think it makes sense that if the residents of Plymouth should be given the opportunity in an early state like November to be able to say, “We’ve listened to them, we’ve heard this and that, and we do not want a racetrack in our town,” then that is information that they can either listen to or they can choose to ignore it. They don’t have to listen to us, but I think it matters that we tell them that we want or don’t want a racetrack.

Betty Cavacco:

Well, I think that in November, I don’t think we’re able to give them what they want. So, I would suggest if you wanted to update your motion–I don’t think May.

[2:25:17]

Harry Helm:

It’s Mr. Flaherty’s motion.

Dick Quintal:

No, Charlie Bletzer’s motion.

Harry Helm:

Yeah, Charlie.

Betty Cavacco:

So, who’s on first? But the problem is that May is six weeks away, and I don’t think we’re going to have the information that we need to make that determination. And I’m not saying this to sound like a jerk, but giving everybody the ability to vote is really the most democratic thing that we can do. So, November is busy and like I said, I know how I feel, I know how you guys feel, I know how people on Facebook feel, but not everybody feels the same way. And I think democratically, we have to give them the ability. But I wouldn’t support May because I don’t think we’re going to have the information. All day long, November, absolutely. So, that’s just my two cents.

Harry Helm:

May I just–I’ve just gotten a whole bunch of texts. I don’t know if it’s improved, but PACTV is frozen.

Betty Cavacco:

I just did too.

Harry Helm:

And the people watching on television have no idea about this last part of the conversation, so I would just like to propose once again, can we put–

Dick Quintal:

Why don’t we just put it on agenda item. Would you put your motion back? Do you want to do it tonight? We can do it and still do that too but I mean–

Harry Helm:

I myself would recommend that we vote on Charlie’s motion tonight, but also because there may be follow-up that we need to do an explanation of what happened when PACTV was frozen. So, voting on Charlie’s motion tonight I think is a good idea.

Dick Quintal:

It’s frozen right this minute?

Betty Cavacco:

Yeah, it’s frozen.

Harry Helm:

It froze during my little diatribe. I broke PACTV. It’s me. Thank you so much.

Betty Cavacco:

So, why can’t we just do it as an agenda item next week? We don’t have to take a motion tonight. Everybody knows what the motion is, whoever’s watching TV knows what’s coming. And you know what, from now on, I’m waiting. So, I don’t want to–I don’t–I think next week is fine. We still have plenty of opportunity. I think there’s more of a conversation because right now, if PACTV is still live, and I’m sure people will be taking snapshots of all this. If people know that we’re going to have this discussion next week, I think we’re going to be a little bit more crowded and let’s be in the Great Hall, so everybody’s comfortable and can stick around.

Dick Quintal:

And can hear us.

Betty Cavacco:

And can hear us.

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Flaherty?

Patrick Flaherty:

Question for Chris Badot, is the Zoom still on?

Chris Badot:

Yes.

Patrick Flaherty:

So, everyone who’s participating in this meeting is still able to hear us whether it’s Zoom or PAC–not PAC, whether Zoom or in-person, right?

Betty Cavacco:

Okay. YouTube PACTV isn’t frozen but regular PACTV is frozen, yeah.

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

I understand what you’re saying, Betty but here’s a possible logistic problem if we don’t vote tonight and that’s not saying I know the outcome of the vote tonight, but I think we need a little bit of time to make sure that a November local initiative at the same time as the national election is indeed possible. And if we vote on that tonight and it passes, in between now and next Tuesday that can be researched, so we know next Tuesday if it isn’t going to fly. We have three days to get the language so that it can go on the May ballot.

[2:30:01]

Dick Quintal:

We can always have a special election. It’s not like you got to do with May.

Betty Cavacco:

$15,000. I talked to–well, and I don’t know if you were listening or if you were frozen a little bit, but I talked to Larry Pizer today and asked him about a November election and I asked Mark Rich as well, and he said, “As long as it’s a municipal, your own town, you can have it.”

Harry Helm:

But I also spoke to Larry about the costs and we know that the special election for the replacement of Selectman Joyce cost approximately $30,000.

Betty Cavacco:

But that was because it was a whole singular thing.

Harry Helm:

But that would be a special election, would be–

Betty Cavacco:

But it would be the same day as the November.

Harry Helm:

Oh, no, no. I’m not talking but what Chairman Quintal said was that if November doesn’t–because I’m saying, I think we should vote on it tonight and if it passes, if it turns out over the coming days, we’ll be able to determine if November would work and if it doesn’t, we only have three days after next Tuesday to get the language in for it to be on the May ballot. And if we find out, if we discuss it on Tuesday, hold our vote on in November, we have three days to research whether it’s going to happen and if it doesn’t work out also come up with language. That is a really quick turnaround time because you’re asking for two things to occur after next Tuesday if we don’t vote on it tonight.

And Chairman Quintal, I mean, I’m not going to disagree with what he said. He said, well, if November doesn’t work out and we’ve overrun the three days to get it on the May election, we could call a special election and that will cost considerably more than $15,000.

Betty Cavacco:

But why do you think there’s–Patrick has the language crafted. Derek sends the language, sorry. Okay, not Derek or Lee sends the language to our legal counsel, get all the language ready. We have a week to put all this logistics together. I mean, it shouldn’t take us a week. And next Tuesday, we can vote that. I mean, we have–Patrick has the language crafted, send it to our legal counsel, if it’s a possibility. I mean, so putting it on the agenda for next week, we’re either going to vote for November with the information that our staff will gather through this week because I expect them to get working on this immediately. I mean, it’s not going to take a week to figure out whether how it can be done. Yeah, but you are–

Harry Helm:

I think the concept of ABL is in place here. Right, Lee? I understand what you’re saying. I’m just concerned that we are–that in my mind, this is my mind, and Charlie made the motion, and he can either withdraw it or not.

Betty Cavacco:

I think he already did.

Patrick Flaherty:

He did not withdraw it.

Harry Helm:

He did not withdraw it, yeah.

Betty Cavacco:

Okay.

Harry Helm:

And it’s up to him to do that. But in my mind, voting now on Charlie’s motion makes sense so that we have time to launch properly out of Tuesday as opposed to have to wait a week to develop these concepts and then try to coalesce it on Tuesday and move forward expecting that the process on Tuesday would be free of any glitches because if we miss the three days, we miss that part of Charlie’s motion.

Betty Cavacco:

So, if we have three days from next Tuesday in my mind, we have 10 days from tonight.

Harry Helm:

Exactly, and I feel that time is a good thing.

Dick Quintal:

Patrick, say something. Go ahead, Patrick.

Patrick Flaherty:

There’s a motion and a second. It’s to the chairman’s call, but I’d ask if we can just vote.

[2:35:02]

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Mr. Bletzer, your motion was to put it on November, correct?

Charlie Bletzer:

Yeah.

Dick Quintal:

On the special town ballot.

Charlie Bletzer:

To see if people would support horse racing. I just want to say one other thing, folks. It’s a non-binding question. And what happens if it’s overwhelmingly far horse racing? I mean, everybody in this room is against it but just keep in mind one thing, and I’m not saying it’s going to pass, I’m not–please don’t put words in my mouth. I know this is a political issue here right now, but we voted twice in Plymouth to legalize gambling, so everybody keep that in mind. All right, but I’m going to make the motion.

Dick Quintal:

Seconded.  All those in favor? Unanimous.

Betty Cavacco:

That gentleman over there has something to say.

Dick Quintal:

Right. We had a motion on the table and then a second.

Harry Helm:

Yeah, but I want to clarify what the motion that we just voted on. I just voted on a motion that was a November ballot.

Charlie Bletzer:

Let me say it again.

Dick Quintal:

Yeah, say it again.

Charlie Bletzer:

The motion was to have the election in November and if we can’t have it on the general election, the state election in November is a separate ballot then we’re going to do it in May 21st election.

Harry Helm:

Okay. Thank you, Charlie. I appreciate the clarification.

Betty Cavacco:

Well, he’ll have to–

Dick Quintal:

Well, it’s got to go to council. We’ll start with that, all right? No, if you want to speak. Mr. Russell and then–yeah, because he’s been waiting patiently.

Mr. Russell:

Thank you. I’m a little late for this comment because you’ve voted, but I want to share something and I will by mail or email about Keeneland and their financial situation because I learned something tonight, and I was glad that I did that horse racing isn’t your favorite thing. That was very important because if this vote, people have a chance to express their thoughts and Keeneland has as much money as I see they have and if they’re interested in horse racing, they will come in just as Mr. Bletzer said, “You don’t know what’s going to happen,” but it’s a staggering amount of money. And so, if they’re big on horse racing, which I kind of doubt, but we’ve talked about it tonight. So, be careful what you wish for because they could come in and convince all these people in town that this is going to be the best things in sliced bread, and you got horse racing. That was my concern. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

I think Charlie was alluding to that too. He agreed with you. Mr. Vautrain?

Charlie Vautrain:

See this building actually, this room was designed for people to talk like this without using a sound system because they didn’t have sound systems when this place was built. Right? Okay. So, I have one question is who’s going to–when they’re doing all their data research and parking the land and everything over in the Wood Lot, if this happens, who’s going to make sure that they don’t do something serious? Who’s going to watch them? You know what I mean? Like we had that sand that disappeared and everything, who’s responsible? Us? The county?

Dick Quintal:

Mr. Hartman, Ms. Lennon. I see you. I see you.

Charlie Vautrain:

Walks off and carry a big stick, okay? And then the other thing I heard about I just was reading about this, I never heard of this until tonight, Massachusetts has a state’s Race Horse Development Fund that has 20 million dollars in it, which they put together, and they were thinking they would use it to save Suffolk Downs. So, that money is still where they set it up. So, if someone does get a chance to put in a horse racetrack anywhere, they can probably get that money. That’s like a good incentive. And the other thing is, and maybe you can tell me this, I know I’ve heard about it was tried in Wareham. Was it the same people?

Betty Cavacco:

No.

Dick Quintal:

No.

Charlie Vautrain:

Okay. Well, there’s been five attempts or four attempts in the state: Great Barrington, Wareham, Rowley, and Sturbridge just shut them down. They said no. And now, we’ve got people coming to Plymouth. But the thing is, I don’t understand is horse racing died here. I mean, people weren’t going to it. That’s why they closed. They weren’t making any money even though they had gambling there, and you could bet somewhere else while you’re at the track. I’m done. Thank you.

[2:40:14]

Dick Quintal:

You’re welcome. Lee, you don’t want to touch on the process? I mean, just for the last time. I appreciate it. I know you’re tired.

Lee Hartman:

So, in my career here in the Town of Plymouth, I sat through the beginning and the current process of the Pine Hills, The Red Brook Development, a movie studio, Cordage Park and I think a lot of people who are behind me have been with me through all those processes. So, again, I would anticipate as we’ve done with many complicated projects in this town, I would anticipate that same type of process that we would be going through. Unless for some reason there’s some argument made that they’re exempt but local review and the local process, it will be very similar to all the other projects we went through. And it’s a two-thirds vote of town meeting to do something different. It takes a lot of consensuses building to do that.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. Okay. We are finished with that subject.

Charlie Bletzer:

Licenses.

Dick Quintal:

Just so everybody knows, yup. Energy committee. So, Lee again, I just have this under new business, the zoning. How do we get people to change some of the zoning in some of the areas? For instance, Long Pond Road is a good example. A lot of retail shops, a lot of trips in and out. Now, 300 rental units/houses in there either/or dwellings. And a lot of them are struggling. I mean, it’s changed: the dynamics, everything. The markets have changed, everything’s gone online. I mean, if you were to say to like we zone that like industrial I think like a supplement park or you know what I’m saying? There could be less traffic and–yeah?

Lee Hartman:

It already has those zoning components in it. So, one of the challenges we deal with, so I think if people wanted to have those types of uses in Long Pond Road or at Colony Place area–

Dick Quintal:

How about Water Street? There’s another one for you.

Lee Hartman:

Water Street is a little different because it’s a tourist, and it’s downtown. I’m not too sure we want to start to create industrial.

Dick Quintal:

No, I didn’t say to put industrial. What I’m saying is, I want to keep it more historical than the way it’s going. So, when I say look at zoning, I just give you two examples. In the near future, I want to look at Water Street, Long Pond Road. We have the traffic information, but I think Water Street on the historical part, where does it end? How do we continue it? How can we change it? We don’t want to hurt anybody. But you see the buildings coming down and–yes.

Lee Hartman:

It’s a difficult thing, and residential is the thing that everybody wants to do in Plymouth. There’s always an answer no matter what we do with local zoning. It’s called the 40B, and that’s unfortunately what we’re seeing in Plymouth right now. When we look at what’s happened at Home Depot, what’s happened at Colony Place. Those are two projects. We did the best we could to discourage but unfortunately, when somebody has land and they can’t figure out how to do a commercial development with it which is something we’ve always pushed. And again, I agree with you not retail, but other types of commercial uses, it’s not a strong market down here for those types of uses. So, a property owner is looking to do what they can. They can’t figure out how to do it with local zoning, they’ll go to that 40B. And I think that’s a pressure we’re going to continue to see in Plymouth, no matter what we do with local zoning. The 40B law is a very difficult law to work with, and it’s going to be a burden for us unless the state ever changes that. Downtown on the waterfront, I think there’s a balance. I would tell you from my standpoint having people downtown and on the waterfront is just as important as having businesses so you have a vibrant community. I am also concerned that that balance might go too far, but it’s very hard with a tool like zoning to finetune and control exactly what happens with how much residential and how much commercial. It is a strain. I think we’ve done a decent job. I think it’s a little more residential than I’d like, but I think when you look at what’s gone on the downtown and the waterfront, we do still see quite a bit of commercial development that has occurred. Some people may not like the type of development, but certainly still is a fairly decent amount of commercial use whenever somebody comes in. The Bradford is a good example where they once came in, they wanted to convert that whole thing from a hotel to 100% residential that’s when we put a lot of pressure on them to make the first floor some type of commercial use that’s consistent with our tourism downtown.

[2:45:14]

Lee Hartman:

So, I think we’re always striving to do that. We’re hopefully going to be looking at a master plan update soon and some of those things could come out of that. I will also, as I remind everybody, we have some of the worst zoning laws in the United States trying to make change in Massachusetts–

Dick Quintal:

Why don’t we have a committee or somebody that–not you. I know not you.

Lee Hartman:

Yeah, and we’ve started that with a master plan update. But again, sometimes trying to undo things in Massachusetts, for example, if we decided today, we were going to try to undo something, we would be talking about it now for November or October, and it gives anybody who wants to protect themselves from those changes months to take and do things so that they can protect from any change we do. So, it’s very difficult to change course in Massachusetts. I think we’re doing a decent job in the downtown waterfront area with the mix, but I agree 100% the residential development, our commercial districts are having a really bad impact. The limited commercial land we have left is going away. I would love to see something other than the retail. I think we have way too much retail in this town, but again, I think any of those spaces could be converted and many even without going to the Board of Appeals to warehousing, office space, medical office without a lot of additional permitting. But again, the market is kind of limited down here. We’re not 128. We’re not Boston. We’re not 495. So, there’s a special niche for the types of businesses we can attract.

But again, I’ve been meeting with Stephen Cole from the Economic Development Foundation. We hear you loud and clear. Our goal is to come in with two or three zoning initiatives for the fall town meeting for the town to consider. I will remind you that we talked about an option of 75 feet heights in the industrial parks. It’s not something this community chose. We ended up with 60 feet in a very small area. I’m not surprised it hasn’t been used, because it is such a small area and a lower height. We talked about creating commercial land in Cedarville. We’ve been fortunate to have a town meeting give us the ability to sell some land on Hedges Pond Road and convert it to non-retail commercial use. We have a lot of interest in that. Unfortunately, to get that approval, we needed to commit to doing what’s now $3 million worth of improvements to a state highway, which will take years. So, we have a piece of property we know we could develop today for jobs and commercial uses, but because of our commitment to do those improvements, I’m not sure when or if we can even do that. And I think it illustrates the challenges where it sounds great to say, “Let’s do some commercial development,” but when you go into a community into a neighborhood or an area, and you talk about the issues they’re dealing with now, it becomes a real challenge to work those balances out. So, I find that–I mean, hopefully we can come up with some other things, but it’s a challenge. I always point out this, there’s no free ride. You could have additional commercial development, but that’s going to have an impact of additional traffic, additional demand on services, creates new jobs, or you can have less commercial development and the burden shifts more to a residential. So, it’s always a difficult thing. It’s a real challenge.

Dick Quintal:

Now, in Cedarville, it’s a roundabout, I believe. Isn’t it something like that?

Lee Hartman:

At this point, MASS highway says we would need to be able–we looked at a light option or a roundabout and this is at the Herring Pond Road-State Road intersection. And to do that, the state said they would not support a light, and it’s their highway, so it’s their control. They said it has to be a roundabout. We think we can do that, but again you have to design it to their specs, they have to approve it, 25% design, 75% full design. They have full control over that. And our initial estimate was one and a half million in 2018. It’s now 3 million, so.

Dick Quintal:

So, it is ready. The plans have been, it’s designed? So, in other words, if Federal money comes–

Lee Hartman:

Right. So, we’re in the process–on that piece, we’re in the process right now of hiring a consultant to do the 100% design work. We’re going to talk about some options for most of the funding and hopefully we can go ahead and through some of those other initiatives get some additional fundings. But again, I only point it out because there are valid concerns in Cedarville and the issues they raised are really serious. I mean, when you are trying to get from the highway to a state road, sometimes it’s an absolute nightmare. So, the concerns are real, but it shows the challenge to take 60 acres and develop for warehousing very little impact on the traffic but the commitments we have to do to try to even get that kind of economic development done, totally valid, but it just creates real challenges in Plymouth to try to do those things.

[2:50:17]

Dick Quintal:

There’s been severe accidents at that intersection. Not only that, we’ve got the bridge construction. When they start shutting those bridges down, I mean the traffic will be to the Plymouth center here.

Lee Hartman:

Yeah. And when we talked to MASS Highway about that, and we had our state delegation there, Matt was right there with us, Vinnie at the time was right there with us and MASS Highway only would say, “We have 200 intersections that are far worse than this. It’s not our priority.” So, though it’s important to us, trying to get MASS Highways’ attention is very difficult. But yes, if they move ahead with those bridges, we’ve made it clear that this is an area they need to look at. But again, I just use those as examples. Almost anything we look at, if we start to look at the Holtec land for commercial development, we’re going to have those same challenges. If we start to look at some other option those challenges will pop up in any part of the community.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. It ties in, and we bring up commercial development. It’s not easy, and I agree with it, but we do need a place in town or places where we can have this. I have elderly people that call me, an elderly person that her furnace went, she just lost her husband. This was a while ago, and she didn’t have the funding to repair that furnace. So, I made some calls, I helped her out and she got it, but this is what I’m talking about that the elderly people in this community can’t afford to stay here, and it needs to be addressed at some point. So, everybody says, “We’re more involved with it.” So, it’s just a big picture. So, thank you. Anybody else? Anything? I get it, I hear you.

Licenses: Eel River Beach Club, 110 Warren Ave., a One Day All Alcohol License on June 17th, 2022 and July 22nd, 2022.

Charlie Bletzer:

Move.

Betty Cavacco:

Second.

Dick Quintal:

Second by Mrs. Cavacco. Discussion? All those in favor? Unanimous.

Paul Veracka Motors Incorporated is requesting an Amendment to their Class I and II Auto Dealer License. The amendment would remove “d/b/a Motorcycles 508.”

Betty Cavacco:

Motion.

Charlie Bletzer:

Second.

Dick Quintal:

Second by Mr. Bletzer. Discussion? All those in favor? Unanimous. There are two administrative notes on there. If anybody has any questions or comments?

Betty Cavacco:

Move as a group.

Dick Quintal:

Moved by Mrs. Cavacco. Do I have a second?

Harry Helm:

Second.

Dick Quintal:

Second by Mr. Helm. All those in favor? Oh, how about discussion? Sorry. Okay. Unanimous. Motion to adjourn?

Betty Cavacco:

Quick question.

Dick Quintal:

Go with it.

Betty Cavacco:

Did we appoint Kristine Danielson?

Dick Quintal:

Yes. That’s a second one.

Betty Cavacco:

Okay. Got you. Okay. Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

Motion to adjourn.

Betty Cavacco:

Motion.

Harry Helm:

Second.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you for attending and watching. Have a nice week. We’ll see you next week, and keep Ukraine in your thoughts and prayers. Thank you.