Agenda – Plymouth Select Board 10-4-22 Agenda

Official Minutes – Plymouth Select Board Minutes 10-4-22

Please note this transcription is unofficial. If you find an error, use the contact page to notify Plymouth On The Record.

Betty Cavacco:

Good evening, everyone and welcome to the Plymouth Select Board, Tuesday, October 4th. Could you please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance.

All:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Betty Cavacco:

If you could also join us in a moment of silence for our deceased Planning Board member, Mr. McAlduff. Thank you. The Select Board has been in Executive Session since 5:00 P.M. And our first order of business in Open Session is the public hearing Proof 22 Inc d/b/a Proof 22.

Dick Quintal:

Do you want me to read?

Betty Cavacco:

Please.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you. In accordance with Chapter 138 of the Massachusetts General Laws as amended, notice is hereby given that a public hearing will be held remotely or in-person at Plymouth Town Hall, 26 Court Street, Plymouth, Massachusetts on Tuesday, October 4th, 2022 at 6:00 P.M. to consider the application for an All-Alcohol Restaurant License for Proof 22 Inc d/b/a Proof 22, 22 Main Street, Peter J. Lucido- manager. Description of the premises is as follows: approximately 4600 square feet of the first-floor restaurant space plus Storage in the basement with a bar area, seating area, one entrance, exit. Anyone wishing to be heard on this matter should plan to attend this meeting. I now declare the meeting open. Mrs. Cavacco?

Betty Cavacco:

Thank you, Mr. Quintal. Public hearing:

• Extension of hours to 1:00 a.m.
• Early Sunday Sales 10 a.m.
• Comprehensive Entertainment Group 1, 2 and 3 (Radio, TV, Live Entertainment and Dancing)
• Common Victualler license
• Sunday Entertainment (Live Entertainment)
• Amplified Music Permit (Live Entertainment, DJ, Recorded Music)

Is there anyone that would like to speak for this public hearing? Is that Mr. Triffletti?

Steve Triffletti:

Yes, Madam Chair. Good evening and thank you for having us back here joined by Peter Lucido. He is a principal in the applicant entity Proof 22 Inc. I’d like to thank members of the board for having us at this hearing as well. The applicant is seeking an All-Alcoholic Retail License for a restaurant with a bar. It’s at the former T-Bones location, 22 Main Street. Many of you may know T-Bones closed at the start of Covid and now the applicant proposes to reopen a restaurant. The plan is to have a southern barbecue flare. And currently, my clients are doing renovations to the premises. You may know uh the principles of Peter Lucido and Paul Tupa from the other restaurants that they own and operate including Tavern on the Wharf, The Shanty Rose and Plymouth Public House. And they’ve been a very good business neighbor to the Town of Plymouth and to the residents.

And as you’ve indicated, we’re seeking a number of licenses as well. Mr. Lucido is here to answer any questions. With respect to the entertainment in order to not have any issues with entertainment at that location on the Main Street, they will not be having any disc jockey entertainment and any musical entertainment. They propose would end at 11:00 p.m. on any day that that would occur. And Mr. Lucido and I are available to answer the questions of the board.

Betty Cavacco:

Thank you. Does the board have any questions? Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

As many people may recall several years ago under the former ownership T-Bones under their Amplified Music Permit particularly live entertainment, there were certain restrictions that were added.

[0:05:12]

Harry Helm:

They ended up amending their Amplified Music Permit because the owners of T-Bones moved the live entertainment from the stage as you have in your plan to the front by the open windows, and it caused enough consternation among residents and other business owners that they attempted to pass a noise warrant. Can you please tell me, are you willing to put in the Amplified Music Permit that your music will be only on the stage?

Steve Triffletti:

Mr. Helm, I’m going to have Mr. Lucido answer you directly, but I would like to remind the board that when they took over the location of Tavern on the Wharf, the former restaurant Nixs had similar noise complaints. And when my clients took over that property, they have not been the complaints that were lodged against the predecessor and they certainly are aware of the T-Bones experience and they do not intend to repeat that. But Mr. Lucido, if you can unmute yourself and further respond to Mr. Helm.

Peter Lucido:

Good evening, board. How are you doing? I’m Peter Lucido. We understand the issues that T-Bones had in the past and have an entertainment in the windows. We actually are going to use the current stage that’s there now. And actually, we’re rebuilding the stage. So, the entertainment will be on the back side of the building away from the windows. Thank you.

Charlie Bletzer:

Yeah. Hi, Peter! How you doing tonight?

Peter Lucido:

Good. How are you?

Charlie Bletzer:

Are you going to keep the music during the day? It was a big hit with T-Bones and I know it was a big hit downtown, so.

Peter Lucido:

Yeah, weekends only. We will do brunch entertainment on Sundays and we will do some entertainment on Saturdays.

Charlie Bletzer:

I thought it was a big hit to liven up the downtown. I think a lot of the merchants are excited for the new business going in there to bring people back. A country barbecue, we don’t have that concept in Plymouth and I like the fact that it’s a different concept with all the other different concepts in the downtown. As everybody knows, you have four. This is your fourth business now. And obviously, you’re invested pretty well in Plymouth. So, I’m hoping you’re very successful and I think you will be. You’re doing pretty well so far. I actually went in there today just to see what you’re going to be doing and you’re kind of keeping that rough concept and the country concept and I like that.

One suggestion, the booths. Build the booth, build them yourself.

Peter Lucido:

Yeah. We thought about that. We took them out because they’re too–well, being a big guy, I can’t fit in a lot of booths. So, I mean, we’re adjusting how we can figure those booths in.

Charlie Bletzer:

I had a barbecue Tex-Mex and we built everything in the parking lot, all the booths and brought them in and it was a rough concept and it was great so just a suggestion. But I wish you well and good luck, and I’m going to support this tonight.

Peter Lucido:

Thank you very much.

Betty Cavacco:

Is there anyone that would like to speak in favor? Anyone against? We’ll bring it back to the board for a motion.

Dick Quintal:

Motion to approve as presented.

Charlie Bletzer:

Second.

Betty Cavacco:

Motion to approve, second. Is there a discussion? All those in favor? Unanimous. Congratulations.

Steve Triffletti:

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Betty Cavacco:

No problem. Next is Public Comment. For folks that want to speak during public comment, please state your name. Just state your name and–

Irene Caldwell:

Is that me now?

Betty Cavacco:

Nope. It’s actually Mr. Serkey. Hold on just a second.

Richard Serkey:

Rich Serkey, Precinct 2. I have a comment on one of the administrative notes, and I’ll be more than happy to wait until you reach that unless you want me to speak about it now. It’s your call.

Betty Cavacco:

You can speak now.

Dick Quintal:

Yeah, wait.

Charlie Bletzer:

Wait.

Betty Cavacco:

Oh, you wanted to wait?

Charlie Bletzer:

Yeah.

Betty Cavacco:

All right. We’ll wait.

Richard Serkey:

Pardon me?

Betty Cavacco:

We’ll wait.

Richard Serkey:

Okay.

Betty Cavacco:

Thank you.

Charlie Bletzer:

We’ll keep you here for a little bit.

Betty Cavacco:

Anyone else want to speak under public comment?

Irene Caldwell:

Yes.

Anthony Senesi:

I believe Irene Caldwell.

Betty Cavacco:

Miss Caldwell?

Irene Caldwell:

Yes. Can you hear me?

Betty Cavacco:

Yes, we can.

[0:10:01]

Irene Cavacco:

I had cataract surgery so all of my notes that I wanted to say are now coming from the heart and the mind and not my written text. I’ll keep it short. And if I exceed three minutes, please just make a noise.

I’m here to talk about Morton Park and my perceptions of how the park is being utilized by people and my concerns. I have lived in Plymouth for 17 years and of those 17 years, I have been to Morton Park two or three times a week. Most of the time winter, summer, spring, fall. I’m a naturalist. I’m a hiker. I’m a dog walker. I’ve skied on the snow trails. I’ve ice skated everything, but my favorite thing is swimming. And so, as soon as the pond gets warm enough, I am in there and I was in there as recently as last week.

What I saw about the park being used is different than the perception that was portrayed at your last Selectmen’s meeting. It is also different than the comments I heard or read in Morton Park, and it is different from the comments that I hear from my friends like, “Oh, Morton Park, there’s all these people coming in leaving shopping carts, trash.” Who do those people think they are? The word those people would instantly infuriate me and I would say, “What do you mean those people?” And invariably, it would be the people that were different from my friends and I, because we are old white people who have lived far too long and seen many changes. We have not lived too long. We want to live another 20 years swimming at Morton Park. Sorry, my notes I can’t read.

I want to tell you about an experience I had when I took one of the refugee children to Morton Park in the beginning of the summer. I am one of those people who volunteered to drive the refugees who came to our community and get them to their doctor’s appointments, jobs, school and to recreate. The family like to go to the park after everybody got finished work, and usually, that was about two o’clock on Saturday afternoon and they would all meet there or want to meet there because, ‘Oh, my gosh! Look at this beautiful park. We can have music. We can have a barbecue. We can be with our friends. We can love this place,’ except that that was not the case. They couldn’t drive into the park because the parking lot was closed. It was closed because by order of the Town of Plymouth, they only counted 100 cars that came in to Morton Park and they didn’t count the cars that left.

So, when I went to take my friends to Morton Park and I couldn’t get in knowing white privilege like I know white privilege, I said to the nice ticket person, “Oh, I’m just visiting my friend.” And since I have many friends who live in the park, I could have named any one of them, I was allowed into the park, parked on the main hill by the bath house so we would have lifeguards. And I sat down there and had a wonderful afternoon. There were many people in the park. The music was alive with this salsa music. There was great barbecuing going on. There were hammocks. There were grandmothers and grandfathers and babies and I just felt so lucky to be alive, to be in a park that welcomed these people, these black and brown people who worked so hard cleaning our stores, working for minimum wage, acting as home health aides to our seniors. Here, they were able to enjoy the park.

[0:15:05]

Irene Caldwell:

That is my memory of the people that came to Morton Park.

When I think of the slideshow that was presented last week who described the people coming into the park and having the audacity to line up on Morton Park Road, I thought, ‘How else are they supposed to get in?’ You won’t let our cars come in. You won’t count the cars leaving. They certainly wouldn’t call and say, “Oh, well, we know a few people in the park maybe we’ll just say we’re going in.” It was overwhelming to me, to my sense of justice. We have been through a hard time in our nation. We have had falsehoods told by political leaders. We have had people try to diminish the state of the vaccine. We have lived through a war now in the Ukraine, but at least here in Plymouth were supposed to be a welcoming community, a loving community that provides for all its people not just the people that own homes adjacent to the waterways.

So, when you consider Article 19 and when you consider what you are going to do with the future of Morton Park, I would like you to consider the public, not the public that owns the land around Morton Park but the public whose soul is enriched because they’re outside in nature, able to walk, able to smile, able to breathe, able to love their friends. If they left a mess, at least it gives the young people who work at it at Morton Park a job because what I saw the young people working at Morton Park is these really lovely kids. Aren’t they lucky to have a nice summer job? The fact that nobody is–

Betty Cavacco:

I’m sorry, Mrs. Caldwell. Thank you for that public comment and we appreciate your input.

Irene Caldwell:

Thank you so much.

Betty Cavacco:

Is there anyone else that would like to speak under public comment? No? Okay. So, we’ll go on to the next order of business.

Irene Caldwell:

Wait. Betty, can I just say one other story? This is short.

Betty Cavacco:

No, actually the–

Irene Caldwell:

No, just like five seconds.

Betty Cavacco:

Sure.

Irene Caldwell:

That man in the white truck who went in to drive in his grill was driving in that great car that he could show off to his family, ‘Look at this hard work that I’ve done. I’m able to own this car,’ but he couldn’t bring the car in. So, thinking about his family that we’re coming to celebrate that date, he rolled it in. He didn’t care about the snickering or the demeaning looks or the arrogance of the people that he passed driving in. He was trying to give his family the best holiday vacation Saturday that he could. And thank you for hearing my words. There is two ways to look at every story. I hope you appoint me to the public group for dealing with Morton Park. And if you ever figure out a way for the public to get down to White Horse Beach, I would like to sign up. In the 17 years, unless I rely on my friends to invite me down, I never get down there but I sure would like a bus that I could pick up from CVS and take you down to White Horse Beach. I would also like to have sidewalks that the walkers can come in from Algonquin Heights and the other–

Betty Cavacco:

Okay. Yes. So, Irene, thank you so much. The next order of business is Licenses and Administrative Notes and an Amplified Music Permit. I know that Mr. Serkey has a comment for one of the administrative notes.

Richard Serkey:

That’s later.

Betty Cavacco:

That’s later?

Richard Serkey:

I think you first have licenses and then Amplified Music Permit and I wanted to comment on one of the administrative notes on the last.

Betty Cavacco:

Okay. So, do we have a motion to move licenses and–

John Mahoney:

I make a motion to move licenses.

Betty Cavacco:

Okay. And what about the Amplified Permit? Okay. So–

[0:20:04]

Harry Helm:

Second.

Betty Cavacco:

We have a motion from Mr. Mahoney, second from Mr. Helm. Discussion? All those in favor? Unanimous.

Now, the Amplified Music Permit.

John Mahoney:

So move.

Betty Cavacco:

Do we have a second?

Harry Helm:

Second.

Betty Cavacco:

Motion from Mr. Mahoney, seconded by Mr. Helm. Discussion? All those in favor? Unanimous.

Now, we move on to administrative notes. What is the comment you have, Mr. Serkey?

Richard Serkey:

Yes, Madam Chairman. I want to comment on item 8 under Administrative Notes which states and I quote, “The Board will vote to appoint Reservitz Bergeron P.C. as in-house Town Counsel.” This is a very significant appointment and I don’t understand why it’s being treated as just an administrative note. There are 16 administrative notes on tonight’s agenda, and this one is buried as item eight right after an amendment to the traffic rules and orders and right before a license to use property at 228 Ryder Way.

The proposed hiring of in-house town counsel should be the subject of a public hearing so the public can comment on it. The subject of whether or not in-house town counsel should be hired to replace outside town counsel has been debated for at least 40 years in Plymouth.

Who are the principals of this firm Reservitz Bergeron P.C.? How much experience do they have in municipal law? Would they be precluded from continuing to serve other clients or would they have to commit to working exclusively for the town? Would they be paid by the hour or would they be paid by a not to exceed annual flat fee? Would the town be responsible to pay for books and materials for them? Would the town be responsible to pay for paralegal assistance and secretarial assistance for them? What contractual obligations does the town have to current town counsel and current special town counsel? Why hasn’t the town engaged a consultant to screen and recommend prospective applicants? These questions and others I’m sure need to be discussed in public so that a fully informed decision can be made on whether or not to hire in-house town counsel. And if so, whom to hire and on what terms?

And finally, to eliminate any misunderstanding, I need to restate publicly that I’ve retired from the practice of law and therefore, I have no personal interest in this matter.

Betty Cavacco:

That’s good to know. Thank you. So, just to comment and I don’t like to comment on public but it is under the jurisdiction of the Selectmen to hire counsel. And we have six counsels, four counsels that we appoint periodically when we need it. We have K.P. We have our special counsel for Holtec. We have our special counsel, Cedar Law and we have one more, Maya. So, this is nothing different than the way this board has appointed other counsels. And the only difference is, is that this counsel has suggested that they serve in town in an office for a couple days a week, which is I think invaluable to our organization. So, it’s up to the Board of Selectmen who we hire for town counsel.

Richard Serkey:

I know you have authority under our charter to hire a town counsel, but it’s a matter that requires public input in order to answer some of the questions that I’ve raised.

Betty Cavacco:

Well, there’s never been any other public input of any other counsel that we’ve appointed. So, we’re trying to be consistent.

Richard Serkey:

Well, this is full-time though. This is full-time town counsel. Would you also be retaining the services of additional counsel when the circumstances require?

Betty Cavacco:

Yeah, sure. Maybe. I mean, we don’t know until circumstances come in front of us. Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

As you know, I always refrain on commenting on public comment but I’m going to ask Derek a question. When we get to Administrative Note 8, will you be able to answer Mr. Serkey’s questions? As long as you can remember what they were since there were like 50 of them.

[0:25:17]

Derek Brindisi:

Yeah, there were a number of them. I can answer most of them.

Harry Helm:

When we get to 8, not now.

Derek Brindisi:

Sure. I can answer most of the questions.

Harry Helm:

Okay, thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Go ahead.

Wrestling Brewster:

Wrestling Brewster, Chair of Precinct 15. This is an interesting thing that you guys are doing because we talked about this in the charter. Just a couple questions, would this counsel be available to town meeting members, to precinct chairs? Just something that we spoke about in the charter was that there’s often times when someone wants to create a warrant or precinct chairs has a question that this would be an interesting avenue to have that happen.

Betty Cavacco:

And I’ll just answer that. As always, if we have something for our town counsel, it will always go through the town manager. So, I would imagine that would continue.

Wrestling Brewster:

Okay. In the past, precinct chairs and town meeting members have not had the opportunity to bring something to town counsel.

Betty Cavacco:

Aren’t you lucky that you have this amazing board now that we allow these types of things?

Wrestling Brewster:

I’m hopeful.

Derek Brindisi:

If I could help clarify. So, just from an operational perspective, I think it would be difficult to provide access for 162 town meeting members. That being said, the 18 precinct chairs is more manageable and given the fact that if the board were to approve this, we would have attorneys here who would be on the clock while they’re presently in Town Hall. I think that would be more manageable and COPC, those folks would be able to have access. I think that’s reasonable.

Betty Cavacco:

Ask and you shall receive, Mr. Brewster. Mr. Quintal?

Dick Quintal:

But the idea of it is not putting it on for the precinct chairs. I mean, it’s for town business. If the town changes the charter to give them more authority than they already have which is too much then yeah, we can discuss it anytime. I’d love to, because when it started, I was sitting here. The presentation that Bill Abbott brought before us that evening was to inform town meeting members, not to rewrite the charter, not to be used in all kinds of counsel, not to be telling the Select Board what to do, okay? And there was a few members on the board at least one that said this was going to happen and he was absolutely correct. It’s out of control in my eyes.

Steve Lydon:

Steve Lydon. I’m not a precinct chair, I’m not a town meeting member, I’m not a former attorney but I’m a voter. I voted for you guys to do a job. I don’t expect me to sit here and question you on your jobs. That’s what you get to do. You hire an attorney, you hire attorney, you hire other people. Does that mean every time you come up with someone hiring like a division head or a department head, I’m going to have to sit here and say, “Hey, wait a minute! Can you have a public meeting? Can we discuss this with like two and a half hours?” You’re doing your job. I don’t see why you have to sit here and answer to anyone when you’re doing the town’s business, its business. Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Thank you, Mr. Lydon. Are there any other comments? So, I would think that–Charlie? I’m sorry, Mr. Bletzer.

Charlie Bletzer:

I was going to wait and weigh in on this one to come up, but we hired a town manager to make this town more efficient, to make it run better and to get some things done. Okay? And this was his recommendation. It would make it more efficient. It would be better for the department heads. They can walk right down the hall or right down the stairs and get questions answered without having to call and being put on hold or get a call back later. So, he’s doing his job.

[0:30:06]

Charlie Bletzer:

We have confidence in him and that’s why we did this. So, and as far as he’ll answer this, as far as that firm that we had, I know for a fact of another residents for years and you know them too, very good municipal lawyers, excellent as a matter of fact. The father I know very well, but David is the principal and he’s an expert in municipal law. So, we’re doing this to help the department heads, to make everything more efficient in the Town Hall. So, that’s the reason for it. Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

I just have one comment because actually hiring in-town counsel was one of my goals from five years ago and I will never forget sitting, it might have been actually at Lincoln Street or it might have been here and saying that the chairman at that time that we needed to hire in-town counsel. And that chairman said to me, “We tried that in the 70s and it didn’t work.” I was 9 years old in 1970. So, this town is growing exponentially and we need to be able to address things the way a professional organization does that. And I think with the new town manager and actually all the new staff that we’ve just hired, we are doing exactly that. And we can’t and nor will I continually keep saying, “Oh, yeah,” like Mr. Lydon said, we’re just trying to do our job and we’re trying to make this more efficient, because whether you want to agree to it or not, what has happened in the past didn’t really work that well.

So, I think it’s this board’s vision to move this town forward and I think this is a great way to start.

Richard Serkey:

I didn’t know until I came tonight that this person would be here two days a week as opposed to full-time and that’s why I posed the questions I did. Were any other applicants solicited? How is this person or this firm chosen?

Betty Cavacco:

Well, that’s under the direction of the Select Board and the town manager. I mean–

Richard Serkey:

What process was used in order to solicit who would be a good candidate? I’m just asking.

Betty Cavacco:

Well, I think it’s the same process that we use for all of them. I mean, they approach us or someone approaches them or knows what it is exactly. I think Mr. Brindisi can answer that better.

Derek Brindisi:

Does Harry have a comment for us before I answer?

Harry Helm:

I respectfully request that we move through the administrative notes in more of a logical order than pulling the middle one out and having a major discussion about it. I think–yeah, this is getting out of control.

Betty Cavacco:

Well, I’d like to make the motion for Article 8: The board will vote to appoint Reservitz Bergeron P.C. as an in-town house counsel.

Dick Quintal:

Second.

Richard Serkey:

Does that mean the discussion is over on that?

Harry Helm:

No, we’re just going to start it.

Betty Cavacco:

No. Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

I would like Mr. Brindisi to please address as many of the questions that were posed both by Mr. Serkey and Mr. Brewster as possible. Thank you.

Richard Serkey:

Keep in mind that the charter says that the appointment of town counsel is the Select Board’s duty, not the town manager but I’ll be–

Harry Helm:

He’s going to answer your questions.

Richard Serkey:

Okay.

Harry Helm:

I think that it’s okay that the person who reports to the board answer the questions that you’ve posed.

Derek Brindisi:

So, let me start by–Mr. Brewster, I know you had two questions. Did I answer those two questions? Okay. So, we’ll move on to the heavy lift. Let’s see. Who are the principals? The two principals are David Reservitz and Michael Bergeron.

How much experience do they have in Municipal law? In their proposal, they each claimed to have over 25 years’ experience as an attorney. Would they be precluded from continuing to serve other clients or would they have to commit to working exclusively for the town? So, during our interview process, we asked if they would give us two days of in-house support. They had stated during that conversation that we would be the only municipality that they would service although they would still practice privately.

Will they be paid by the hour? Yes, they would be paid by the hour. I believe it’s $250 an hour.

[0:35:06]

Derek Brindisi:

Would the town be responsible and pay for books and materials? Honestly, we didn’t talk about books and materials. I can certainly follow up on that.

Would the town be responsible to pay for paralegal assistance and secretarial assistance? No.

What contractual obligations does the town have to current town counsel and current special counsel? To my knowledge, we don’t have a contract with either.

Why has the town not engage a consultant to screen or recommend prospective applicants? Well, we didn’t and it wasn’t considered quite frankly, I am not–I don’t know if any municipality hires outside firm to do screening for attorneys. I know many municipalities in the last three to four months if you go on MMA are seeking to hire as staff support town officials in that role and then not seeking to hire outside consultant to do just that.

I think that’s all of them. Those are all the questions that you had.

Richard Serkey:

Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

You’re welcome. So, we have a motion–

Harry Helm:

Quick follow-up question. You mentioned $250 an hour?

Derek Brindisi:

Yes.

Harry Helm:

What are we currently paying K.P. Law per hour?

Derek Brindisi:

Well, they have a different tiered structure. So, for general counsel, off top of my head is about 250 but then for special counsel so land use and planning, I think it’s north of 300. So, it could be 325.

Betty Cavacco:

It was 350.

Derek Brindisi:

And then for labor, it’s about 325, 350. So, the general counsel is 250. Bergeron and Reservitz have given us a proposal of 250 for all types of legal advice.

Harry Helm:

We would still be able to engage K.P. Law or the other special attorneys even if we bring in Reservitz and Bergeron to do the two days a week in-house?

Derek Brindisi:

Yes. And I would expect that we would continue to engage the firms that have been appointed previously.

Harry Helm:

Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

So, we have a motion and a second.

Charlie Bletzer:

Madam Chair, I just want to address Mr. Serkey real quick. It is the Select Board’s decision, not the town manager. But I can tell you, this Select Board, I know this select person relies on the advice of the Town Manager, and that’s why we hired him. He’s the expert and I’m very confident to him as I am in most of the department heads, if not all. So, I rely on him. And I just happened when he told me who the firm was, I know the Reservitz’s. I’ve known them for 30 years, 40 years whatever. I know he has been in a court system for 26 years. I know that they’re great attorneys. So, I was very happy with his recommendation and it was a recommendation. And now, we’re going to vote to see if we approve it. So, just so you know, thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Mr. Mahoney?

John Mahoney:

So, I understand that this is certainly under the control of the Select Board to make this appointment. But I look at admin notes and historically to me, admin notes are approving open meeting minutes. So, there’s two or three here from April and May. You’re making appointments to committees that are non-contested. There’s no competition. You have numerous departments are applying for grants, things like that, I think it’s okay to put through administrative notes. But tonight, certainly #5, Town Flag Policy and #8 hiring in-house counsel, I thought that they certainly elevated to the level of being an open meeting discussion. Put on as an agenda item so that the public can weigh in also. I mean, this is a big decision and you want as much openness and transparency as possible, you want the public to feel like they’re part of the process.

We go to town meeting every year, there’s a line item for legal counsel that’s approved, you’re potentially expanding this from 4 to 5 legal counsels that are taking money out of that bucket. They’re going to be given an office in-house, that’s a significant change. There’s a lot going on here. I just got this. I downloaded the packet into my laptop Saturday afternoon and I saw this for the first time and there are a fair amount of questions that I think the board and the public need to have answered. And if somebody didn’t beat me to the punch on a motion, I certainly would have made a motion to table it and having that as an agenda item on Tuesday October 18th.

[0:40:11]

Betty Cavacco:

Well, we aren’t doing anything that we haven’t done in the past. I know that you have your own special little time machine that you continually go back to. So, this is nothing different. We have the authority to appoint town counsel and we have a motion on the floor with a second. Discussion? Are we finished with discussion?

Charlie Bletzer:

No. I think we’re in discussion now, John. No disrespect, but now is the time to ask your questions. Now is the time when you ask questions. I mean, there’s been a lot of questions answered so far. Mr. Serkey had some great questions. Wrestling had a good question too. So, what questions do you have, John? Let’s lay it out there.

John Mahoney:

Well–

Betty Cavacco:

I mean, didn’t you have questions you spoke to the town manager? I didn’t hear from you all weekend with any questions so I didn’t think you had any questions.

John Mahoney:

Again, certainly, administrative note #5 and #8, I thought would have been elevated to an open agenda meeting for the public to weigh in, for them to get up and state their piece.

Charlie Bletzer:

I think that’s what we’re doing right now. We took them. We took them separate and we’re discussing #8 right now. And anybody here can comment. So, if you have questions, John, ask your questions.

Betty Cavacco:

We have a motion and a second. All those in favor?

Charlie Bletzer:

Aye.

Betty Cavacco:

Opposed. It’s four-to-one with Mr. Mahoney in opposition. Now, John, I’ll give you the opportunity. You said that there’s an issue with #5 as well for a Flag Policy. Is that something you’d like to discuss?

John Mahoney:

Well, I’d like to go back to what Mr. Helm was referring to earlier. I think there should be a process here. We should go through these sequentially and let’s get one, two, three and four out of the way and then come to them as we approach them in the agenda.

Betty Cavacco:

Well, I was just saying 5 because you mentioned it. So, okay. So, Administrative Notes. Can we go through make a motion to move as a group one to four?

Harry Helm:

Motion.

Betty Cavacco:

Is there a second?

Dick Quintal:

Second.

Betty Cavacco:

Okay. Discussion? All those in favor? Okay.

Administrative Note 5, the board will vote to approve and execute the Flag Policy as presented in the agenda packet and will be effective as of November 10th. Do we have a motion? Sure. I mean, do we want to weigh or not? Right.

Jeff Lindquist:

Evening. I’m Jeff Lindquist. I’m a member of the Chiltonville Congregational Church here in Plymouth, and I had along with two other churches and one of our non-profits sent a letter to the Board and the Town manager requesting that we could fly the Christian flag from the flagpole. It seemed that other groups had been allowed to fly a banner, and I’m a little concerned here that the town is or at least town management, I should separate that from the town is picking favorite and non-favorite groups here. I wonder if there was a call at the last request to come up with a new policy all of a sudden.

Now, that we’ve put in our request, it seems we suddenly need a policy to not allow it. One thing I would like to say is I’m reminded of a speech that Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn had given. He was the Russian dissident who came to this country and he still loved his former Russian country.

[0:45:04]

Jeff Lindquist:

He had no use for the Soviet communists, and somebody asked him, “How can you still like your country after the revolution and the communists came in and killed 40 million of your countrymen? How can you explain that?” And he said very simply that men had forgotten God and I would like to think that we are not going to forget God in this town. So, I hope we have consideration of our request. Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Mr. Brewster?

Wrestling Brewster:

Wrestling Brewster, Chair of Precinct 15 and the moderator of the Chiltonville Congregational Church. First, I’d like to thank the Board for allowing public comment during Administrative Notes. In the past, it isn’t always allowed so I’d like to thank you for doing that. To John’s point, I think that it’s great that you’re letting the public speak to this.

Just to Mr. Lindquist note on September 6th, he sent a note to the town government, I believe to Mr. Brindisi, requesting that the Christian flag be flown in November in remembrance of our Pilgrim forefathers and foremothers that came over here for religious reasons. And I think it would be great to do that in remembrance of them. I think that I’m a little disappointed that Mr. Lindquist’s request was not reacted to in a timely manner. It took I believe that he did it on the 6th and repeatably called Town Hall about it. I had said to him, “Next time I see Mr. Brindisi, I’ll ask him about it.” I haven’t seen him. But I think that the proposal to fly the Christian flag in November was not made in reaction to any other flags. It was made in the reaction to, “Oh, Town Hall is allowing different flags to be flown in front of Town Hall.” And whether you decide to make a policy, the request was made before the policy was made, so I would request that that request be looked at before you made this policy or no matter what the policy is, this was requested before the policy was made. Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Mr. Quintal?

Dick Quintal:

Derek, are you aware what went on in Boston and did they go down this particular same road?

Derek Brindisi:

Yes. So, it was a few years back. I’m not certain of the exact year but it was just a few years back so it’s recent memory. The City of Boston, they have three flagpoles and their local flagpole, they didn’t have a policy in place, the City of Boston. And if they’d received the requests, they would allow a flag to be raised except for one occasion when there was a Christian group who asked for their flag to be raised. For whatever reason, the City of Boston denied it. That group filed a complaint against the City of Boston. It actually went up to the Supreme Court. The City of Boston lost that lawsuit and they were ordered to raise all flags unless they put a policy in place. I believe the City of Boston raised that flag for a day or two. I figured how many days in response to the judge’s decision. Then they enacted a policy they have now in place which gives them the rules of engagement on when a flag will be raised in the City of Boston.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Charlie?

Charlie Bletzer:

Mr. Brindisi, I got a question for you. You’ve talked to counsel about this?

Derek Brindisi:

Yes.

Charlie Bletzer:

Is this the reason why it’s not effective immediately? Would they be able to fly their flag till is it November 10th?

Derek Brindisi:

So, that’s the board’s decision whether or not. Again, we don’t have a policy in place right now. There hasn’t been a policy in place. The pride flag was raised in June without a policy and I believe that’s–

Charlie Bletzer:

This is effective November 10th?

[0:50:02]

Derek Brindisi:

Right. The admin note says effective November 10th and the reason being is because the new policy explicitly states military flags can be raised and given that Veterans Day is November 11th, it allows a 10-day window before Veterans Day.

Paul Jehle:

Paul Jehle, Pastor, New Testament Church South Plymouth. In reading through the Supreme Court case from Boston, I noted several things as I read through that. First of all, the issue started in 2017 when they had attempted to raise that flag when there was no policy. And then of course, with the fact that they’re the only one that’s the only one that they actually refused. In fact, they had over 50 requests, 284 different civic assemblies that took place during that time period and had never refused a flag. And in fact, had said there’d be accommodation for any without scrutiny of content. And so, when this happened and then the litigation began, they recognized without a policy, they were simply acting arbitrarily and I think that’s where the court case came in. And so, they had to allow because according to common law ex post facto laws, you can’t end up just retroactively going back and dealing with that. So, when they actually applied it in 2017 without a policy, they were given that.

Normally, in Boston, the flags that were raised on that third flagpole only up for two hours during the time of an activity of some kind. And it did not necessarily stay up for days or even two days. Most of them were only two or three hours depending on the activity. So, I would think that with this policy, even if this policy goes into effect and it changes it, like Boston is planning to change it and deal with that, then it should be allowed up until November 11 or allowed during a time period whether it’s Thanksgiving Day or whether it’s Mayflower Compact day, which unfortunately has the same as Veterans Day but November 21 with the change of calendar. Something for a time period, it certainly doesn’t have to be up for a long time but it would display the town’s accommodation that they have had without a policy previously. That’s all. So, thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Anyone else? John?

John Mahoney:

So, I forgot this gentleman’s name. No, I know Paul. Jeff, the Gulag Archipelago is on my nightstand. I’m two books away from that one. Okay? So, I remember Mr. Solzhenitsyn and he lived up in Cavendish for a while 20 or 30 years and I remember all the press coverage and him returning I think when Boris Yeltsin was in charge. And I’m guessing he lived long enough to agree with us today that Vladimir Putin wasn’t the man he wanted. So, having said that, I’ve grown up over the years and obviously, what happened to the separation of church and state and I’m going to get into my time machine and we’re going to go back and I can cite numerous examples in the past, you’ve got to be consistent. When the executive board is playing favorites, that’s when you run into trouble. And I’ve seen it happen before, waving of fees, you’re doing it from one entity and not for another one. I don’t know the back story here of how the flag that we’re referring to get flown up there to begin with. I know that happened apparently back in the spring.

Derek Brindisi:

June.

John Mahoney:

June. The approval I think happened earlier than that, but we need to adopt a policy and it needs to be consistent. And I do have the policy in front of me now, it’s very simple and straightforward. It’s literally a page and a half and it comes down to basically federal flags, state flags, town flags and one exemption and that’s for the basically military VFW. Yeah, POW/MIA.

Betty Cavacco:

Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

So, are we discussing this before a motion is made to approve and execute this Town Flag policy? Just wondering because I have some things that I would like to bring up if we’re discussing it now before we move and make a motion.

Betty Cavacco:

You can discuss it, please.

Harry Helm:

Derek, can you please pull up the letter of September the 6th?

Derek Brindisi:

The letter, okay.

Harry Helm:

Because I forgot to bring it with me tonight.

Derek Brindisi:

I have it.

[0:55:00]

Harry Helm:

I didn’t think we were going to have discussion tonight. Would you please read the central paragraph of their explanation of why they are requesting this? I believe it goes a little bit further than Mr. Brewster’s interpretation of the request.

Derek Brindisi:

It’s a short let so I’ll read the whole thing.

Dear Mr. Brindisi and Ms. Cavacco:

We see that the town has decided to open up the use of Town Hall flagpole to outside groups. It appears that a group’s banner can be flown for a period of one month. The churches/organizations listed below would like to arrange to fly a Christian flag. The month of November we think would be the best time for this.

In November, the national celebration of the Thanksgiving holiday has a special significance in Plymouth. We feel that it is the best time to remind people that is the Lord God they should be thankful to and it was certainly God who the pilgrims were thankful to that first Thanksgiving.

Please let us know what requirements there may be to fly this flag (any banner size, limitation, etc.) and if there are any existing application forms we would need to complete. We thank you for this opportunity to proudly display the Christian flag as a reminder of the faith of the pilgrims in this county’s Christian heritage. We look forward to your prompt reply.

Sincerely,

Jeff Lindquist

Harry Helm:

So, am I correct in that the concept here is the intention of this flag to remind people of what or who in particular are Lord God they need to be thankful for at Thanksgiving? Am I correct in believing that is the reason for this request to remind people that they need to be thankful to the Lord God, not that they need to be thankful for anything else but the flag is to remind people to be thankful to the Lord God?

Derek Brindisi:

That’s what it says verbatim.

Harry Helm:

Okay. All right. Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Well, I think my history teacher actually was Mr. Tarantino who–used to. Andy was a selectman and I don’t believe Thanksgiving is a holiday. So, I am actually going to make an amendment. I mean, Thanksgiving is a religious holiday. I am going to make an amendment that we adopt and execute the flag policy but we do it immediately by the end of business this evening. I think it’s problematic that I don’t want people arguing over whose flag is going to be up. And it’s shockingly that no one’s ever requested a flag be raised in the past five years that I’ve sat here. So, I am going to make a motion that we adopt the flag policy as we have in our packets and make that immediately and not wait until November 18th or no–yeah, November 18th.

Harry Helm:

I’ll second that. For discussion, can we read the flag policy since perhaps not everybody has the packet and particularly the people at home did not–

Betty Cavacco:

Didn’t John just read it? Can you read it, John?

Derek Brindisi:

I can read it.

Charlie Bletzer:

Before you do that, can I Madam Chairman?

Betty Cavacco:

Yes.

Charlie Bletzer:

Can we vote on how it’s written instead of immediately?

Betty Cavacco:

Well, we’ll have that discussion. There’s a motion and a second.

Harry Helm:

Yeah, I second for amending it to immediately.

Charlie Bletzer:

Okay. So, all right.

John Mahoney:

So, Section 1 – To establish guidelines for the display of (1) flags of governments recognized by the Federal Government (2) Official U.S military and POW/MIA flags, and (3) other flags on flag poles owned and maintained by the Town of Plymouth.

2. Policy Guidelines:

2.1 Policy

It is the policy of the Town of Plymouth that all flags will be displayed in conformance with Federal and State policies and laws. This includes, but is not limited to, the Federal “Our Flag” publication and Massachusetts General Law Chapter 2 Section 6 and Section 6A.

2.2 Eligible Flags and Order of Precedence

Only the U.S, Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Town of Plymouth and official flags of the U.S. Military and POW/MIA flags may be flown on any Town-owned flag pole. Outdoor flags will be flown on town flag poles in the following order of precedence: first, the U.S flag; second, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts; third, the Town of Plymouth Flag and fourth, official flags of the U.S Military and POW/MIA.

[0:59:56]

John Mahoney:

2.3 Federal, State and Local Proclamation of Special Occasion

Flags flown on Town flag poles shall be displayed in accordance with the prior standards referenced above in the Sections 2.1 and 2.2. The Select Board, or if time is of the essence, the Town Manager may order flags to be lowered to half staff including, but not limited to flags of the U.S and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in honor of the death of a Town employee killed in the line of duty, or in the observance of a special event or circumstance.

2.4 Other Flags

The Town’s flag poles are not intended to serve as a forum for free expression by the public. The only flags permitted on Town-owned flag poles are those set forth in Section 2.2, and all of the flags are prohibited from being flown on any and all Town of Plymouth flag poles.

3. Applicability

This policy is applicable to all Town-owned flag poles.

4. Questions

Please direct questions to the Town Manager’s office (508) 747-1620 extension 10106.

And then signature lines.

Betty Cavacco:

Thank you, Mr. Mahoney. Continue discussion. Mr. Bletzer?

Charlie Bletzer:

Yes. I think we should honor the requests of the church, the Christian Churches. They asked for it before the policy was set and I think November 10th would be fair, I would think and I would be in favor of that. If we’re going to do it immediately, I think I’m going to vote no on that. So, I think I’d like to see at least kind of a compromise and then after that, it’ll be just the way the policy reads. Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

After that is six weeks away and I don’t believe that–that’s six weeks. If we don’t set that policy tonight and make it immediately, we have six weeks of possible flag presentations.

Charlie Bletzer:

Okay. Can we just allow this one? Is that possible?

Betty Cavacco:

No. My motion is immediately and it was seconded. So, anyone else? Sure. Who he? Wrestling?

Rev. Susan Thornton:

I’m Reverend Susan Thornton. I’m the Pastor of Chiltonville Congregational Church. Mr. Helm raised the question about the intention to fly the flag, and I wonder whether the previous instance of flying a non-municipal flag had an intention that was expressed to you. And if so, what was that intention? And how did the process go to approve that flag? We followed I think a process even though you had nothing in place and we got no response at all. So, please enlighten me. What was the reason to fly the flag? Who requested it? And how was it approved? I think that you have to treat like for like.

Harry Helm:

I can’t answer all of your questions. May I–through the Chair.

Betty Cavacco:

Please.

Harry Helm:

But from my recollections, it was a simple request. It was to honor Pride Month, which is the month of June as the recognized Pride Month. The petitioner where it was Plymouth Pride, a local organization and they came and they requested it. Just sort of like a forum like this and it was approved. I will say that your characterization that what I said about the reason as stated in your letter was somehow my interpretation. It’s not my interpretation. It’s what’s in the letter.

Rev. Susan Thornton:

I didn’t say that, sir. I’m just saying that you cited you thought that was a reason that we gave.

Harry Helm:

No. Okay, I thought. It’s not a matter of thought. It’s in your letter. It’s stated.

Rev. Susan Thornton:

Did the Selectmen vote on that particular request? How was it handled?

Harry Helm:

We voted on it.

Rev. Susan Thornton:

Okay. And how long was it from when the request was made to when you did the vote?

Harry Helm:

I believe they’d been making it for a few years.

Rev. Susan Thornton:

They would have had to have renewed it for this year though. So, from that point–

Harry Helm:

They renewed it. They renewed it, but I believe that they’ve been asking for a few years.

Rev. Susan Thornton:

My question was this year’s request was received when and when did you vote on it?

[1:05:01]

Harry Helm:

I can’t answer that. Anthony, you’d have to look in the record and then you can answer the pastor’s question.

Rev. Susan Thornton:

In view of the fact that you had no policy in place, you received two requests. One of which you honored; the second, you’re not honoring for whatever reason and it’s just as Jeff had said I think that there’s an inequal treatment of these two requests for these two groups. So, I just want to go on the record for that.

Betty Cavacco:

Any more discussion amongst the board? Oh, I’m sorry. Do you want to go up together?

Wrestling Brewster:

No, definitely not. Mr. Brindisi, can you let me know how many requests you’ve got for flying flags in the last year?

Derek Brindisi:

I can only speak to my six months, and this is my first request.

Wrestling Brewster:

Okay. So, I think the particular thing that we’re talking about here–Wrestling Brewster again, is that I appreciate Mr. Bletzer opening this up and saying that, “Yeah, you should come up with a policy,” and I think that that’s what you should be doing. I think that: a, this letter was given in an appropriate amount of time before you came up with a policy. I think it would be apropos for you to say, “Okay. We’re going to allow this because it came before the policy was made,” and then you can make your policy. You’re not going to get any argument. There’s not a flood of people wanting to fly the flag, so it’s not going to be if you let this happen, that a bunch of people are going to say, “Oh, I’m going to start putting my thing in because Mr. Brindisi has stated that he’s only gotten one request.” So, I think it would be apropos and fair to allow this flag to be flown for a certain amount of time. And I honor Mr. Bletzer for making that request.

Betty Cavacco:

Mr. Brindisi? I’m sorry, can I just ask him a quick question? I’m sorry. Could we make the policy effective immediately with the exemption of this request? And I’m sorry, I can’t remember when is the request to fly that flag. Did you say November?

Derek Brindisi:

It’s for the month of November, for the entire month.

Betty Cavacco:

So, I think the month is a little–I mean, for the whole month. I don’t know what–I mean, there is a separation of church and state but obviously, we’ve–okay. Mr. Helm?

Harry Helm:

But there is a matter of precedent. And my question to Derek, do the lawyers if we let them fly from November 1st to the 10th and then I have a question about what it is they’re going to be flying because they mentioned a Christian flag or the Christian flag, and I’m not exactly sure even having been in Christian publishing that there is a Christian flag or the flag of Christianity. And would it be appropriate for the Catholic flag to be flown since it is a Christian denomination? But Mr. Brindisi, what did the lawyer say about any precedent if we allow them for the first couple weeks of the month?

Derek Brindisi:

So, the attorneys I think were mostly concerned that if this flag were to be raised, the town may receive other requests from other religions and maybe subject to a complaint file for not raising those flags.

Harry Helm:

Was that their opinion if we did not have a policy in place or is that their opinion even if we put a policy in place?

Derek Brindisi:

With the policy we’re talking about, they would be worried that if the Christian flag was to be raised for the month of November even with a policy that complaints can be filed. Did they say they could defend those complaints? Absolutely.

[1:09:58]

Harry Helm:

So, in other words, if we allow them to fly for 10 days to take something to an extreme edge of absurdity. Would that mean that the Satanic Church could claim October and Halloween? Is that what is–

Derek Brindisi:

I mean, I talked to two different attorneys about this and they both said that they cannot guarantee that another request won’t come forward and that if the Board denied that request, that a complaint wouldn’t be thereafter. This policy doesn’t prevent any of that whether it’s voted immediately or thereafter.

Betty Cavacco:

Belinda, I’m sorry.

Belinda Brewster:

Hi! No, that’s quite all right. Belinda Brewster, I’m also a parishioner at Chiltonville and on the board of deacons. I know that it puts the Town Selectmen in a difficult position because for the reason that you made, there will be flags that you don’t want to see up there. That is the price for living in a free society under the free speech constitution that we have. So, I’m not critical that you want to come up with a flag policy at all. I just find it interesting that the discussion wasn’t held on a Flag Policy back when the first request came in. That it’s only now when we as a church want to fly the flag in honor of the pilgrims and our own Mayflower Compact that says, the reasons why they came here was for the glory of God and the furtherance of the gospel. And our whole almost economic, we’re a destination. People come here. I’m kind of grateful to hear that you’re willing to compromise. I would say I think we’d be willing to fly it the week of Thanksgiving when everybody is here and yes, we could get a group that wants to fly a horrible flag that we don’t agree with but again, that’s the price we pay for living in a free society.

Again, I applaud you for coming up with a Flag Policy, but I’m a little confused as to why it wasn’t brought up when the very first request was made and it could have been handled at that time. But thank you for your consideration.

Charlie Bletzer:

Madam Chair?

Betty Cavacco:

Hold on. Mr. Brindisi?

Derek Brindisi:

I just wanted to just provide a little bit more context. Folks have asked why there was no response to the September 6th letter and to be quite frank with folks in this room in the question about why there wasn’t a Flag Policy after the pride flag was flown, there was an email that I received on June 3rd at 12:27 p.m. and I’m going to read into the record.

Hey, Derek!

Why is there a rainbow flag outside of Town Hall? This isn’t the town’s place to do something like that. As you know, City of Boston just went through this fly one, you have to fly them all. I assume you’ll have no problem flying a Christian flag next month.

I can tell you from reading that email and the moment I read that back on June 3rd, to me that person who references the Christian groups put the town on notice that this request was going to come forward. And quite frankly, I think that’s–

Betty Cavacco:

Derek, who wrote the email?

Derek Brindisi:

It came through as Christopher. I don’t have a last name. I don’t know.

Betty Cavacco:

Hold on just a moment. Go ahead.

Paul Jehle:

I would simply reiterate that Town has every right to make a Flag Policy. The issue simply that took place here and I’ll read from this that when a government–this is reading from the Supreme Court decision.

When the government speaks for itself, the First Amendment does not demand air time for all views. The city did not deny a single request to raise a flag until in 2017, the camp constitution decided to request that a Christian flag be flown.

[1:15:09]

Paul Jehle:

By the way, the Christian flag is not a denominational flag. It does not identify itself with any specific individual church. It’s a white flag, it has a blue corner with a cross on it. So, it could be claimed by many denominations or many individuals. And then Boston refused of course that. And because Boston did not make the raising and flying of private groups flags a form of government speech, they allowed it. In fact, they said they would have not removed it, they would accommodate any content. If the Town of Plymouth says that they are controlling what flags go up and they do not in any way deal with free speech, that’s it. Case closed. You’ve made the policy. But neither does an open policy that you’ve had up until this point without a policy somewhat open. You’ve accepted a request. I agree with you. There should be no disrespect toward any group. There should be no reaction or idea that let’s compete and let’s down one person, I’m totally against that and I don’t think that has any place, any decorum. At the same time, it seems simple to me without a policy, you are in that zone of common law where there was no policy. So, to make an exception, I think it’s fair and is reasonable. I don’t think that you have to deal with the entire month. I think that you can deal with what day is it most commemorative and that would be a simple way to end this. I appreciate you accommodating that. I appreciate your comments in that regard, and I think in that case, that would be fair and it would be reasonable and it would be in line with what the decision was.

Charlie Bletzer:

Madam Chairman?

Betty Cavacco:

Mr. Quintal first and then Charlie.

Dick Quintal:

I don’t remember voting on–excuse me, I don’t remember voting on the–

Betty Cavacco:

I think we did.

Dick Quintal:

You think we did. Were you the town manager then, Derek? No?

Betty Cavacco:

No.

Dick Quintal:

So, this happens–well, if Derek wasn’t here then Anthony wasn’t here either. No, seriously. So excited much.

Betty Cavacco:

But I think this was months before that I think it was in the works it might, if I’m not mistaken. John’s time machine, I don’t fit in it. It only fits one and it’s just John. Mr. Lydon?

Dick Quintal:

Well, not that it matters but I remember the discussion going back to the crosswalk and I voted against that and only against it, because it was going to set a precedence. And as you can see, it’s setting the precedence. And I voted against it for the simple reason and it was hard. I got called a lot of names and whatever, that’s come to the territory.

Betty Cavacco:

What else is new?

Dick Quintal:

No. But I don’t like saying I was right, but here we are again. And we do need a policy and what’s good for one is good for all, simple. But in the spirit of compromise, if we can get something done and set up a policy but I really don’t remember voting on putting the flag up. Maybe we did, but I’m very interested in those minutes because I probably would have voted against that also for the simple reason that I voted against the crosswalk. I’m going to get a little personal here, my kid sisters are gay. I have managers in my business that there’s no bearing on it, whatsoever. I have brother-in-law. All right? So, it’s not that at all but I didn’t want to set a precedence. Maybe my mistake recently was not setting the policy when it first came up but then it would have looked the same as it looks right now. I have to say on this closing note that I’m really tired, I’m really tired of this community going at each other for the foolish–it’s not foolish and I’m not referring just to this. This is in general before this came up tonight. I am tired of the going back and the fourth and non-productive, beating up each other.

[1:20:07]

Dick Quintal:

I mean, that’s not what I signed up for. And please don’t sit out there and tell me it comes with a job because it really shouldn’t. And I’m probably going to be in pink lettuce tonight on the Facebook, bring it on. You got the keyboard warriors out there, but I mean, really we should be doing the town’s business in setting policy and that’s what we’re really supposed to be doing. And I have to also say that I have no problem flying this flag for a certain amount of time and setting that date right after that time. We have not taken on any more requests as of a certain time and just have the policy on the books.

Betty Cavacco:

So, hold on just a second. So, you said Thanksgiving, the week of Thanksgiving, is that what you–so, if I amended my motion to actually put the policy in place immediately with that one exception, because that request came in beforehand, is that going to put us in a position–

Derek Brindisi:

Again, we can’t predict if other requests are going to come forward but–

Betty Cavacco:

I mean, I have to say that we’ve gotten claims against us because we have people putting horribly derogatory signs on their property across from a bus station that we try to stop and the ACLU came right after us. And I mean, some of this stuff if my kids were younger, I would be a mental case right now because I would do whatever I had to do to stop it. But I don’t want the town to get into that position and although I appreciate what Dick said and one of the things is that we’re trying to be consistent because we are criticized that we aren’t when actually we are.

Charlie Bletzer:

Let me simplify this and end this conversation. We pick a week if it’s Thanksgiving. We have one request for a flag. We’re setting a policy which we have to do and I think everybody in this room agrees with the policy. It’s very fair. So, we put it in writing that we’re honoring this one request and that’s it. I don’t think we’re going to have any issues. There’s only been one request and this is it. And if there is, if anybody has grounds to file a lawsuit, it would be this this group here. Okay? Because they put their request in and all of a sudden, we’re setting a policy. It looks like we’re trying to discriminate against them, and I know that’s not what we’re doing at all. I mean, I’m a Christian. This is a very simple thing, week at Thanksgiving. They’re happy, and after that, it’s just what the policy says and we stick to the policy. So, thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Mr. Lydon?

Steve Lydon:

Kind of everything that I wanted to say has been said. I agree with Mr. Quintal. It’s kind of hard to tell someone they can’t put a flag on Town property on a Town equipment when we allow a rotary right down by our rotary where all the tourists go on the tour buses that we have a crosswalk, a rainbow crosswalk. And where the request came in before, well, it’s been in there, I think it should be approved and set the date effective tomorrow. Effective tomorrow, the policy will go in effect. You got to do something about the crosswalks because that’s the same thing. What if some satanic group wanted to come in and put a double in the middle of the crosswalk down by Plymouth Rock? I don’t know. You guys got a tough job, but I think this one’s kind of easy. The request was in before the date. I think that they should be able to have their flag up for a week. A month is kind of long, but they’ve compromised and said a week. So, I think we should compromise too. Thank you.

[1:24:59]

Betty Cavacco:

You want to know what the saddest part for me is that can’t we just let people be? I mean, honestly, can’t we just let people? I don’t care what you do, how you do it, who you do it with. It’s really none of my business. And I just wish that we could get back to that. So, with that being said and I understand what you said, Charlie which is what I said with my motion, I’m going to amend my motion to make the flag policy go into effect immediately and with this Christian group as the only exception for the week of Thanksgiving.

Charlie Bletzer:

Put it right in, because they requested this–

Betty Cavacco:

Because the request was put in prior to this policy.

Derek Brindisi:

So, just so there’s clarity on that motion, are we saying November 21st to the 25th, those five days Monday to Friday of that week?

Betty Cavacco:

Is that good? Yes.

Derek Brindisi:

Just so we’re clear. Do I have a second?

Charlie Bletzer:

Second.

Betty Cavacco:

Discussion? I don’t want to hear about it anymore. All those in favor? Unanimous. You’re welcome.

Okay. So, now, we’re out of the time machine. Five is done, eight is done. Do we want to–

Derek Brindisi:

Six and seven. Six and seven.

Betty Cavacco:

Six, seven, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen move as a group, do I have a motion?

John Mahoney:

Motion.

Dick Quintal:

Second.

Betty Cavacco:

I have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? Mr. Mahoney?

John Mahoney:

So, Mr. Town Manager, I just want to–I mean, I know you’ve instituted a new process. The department heads are asking for permission through us to apply for grants. Ms. Park is up in the fourth floor and I guess her primary function is executing or seeking grants. Correct?

Derek Brindisi:

That’s correct.

John Mahoney:

So, I just want to make sure that–I mean, number 12 is for $6 million from NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration for two major projects in the downtown area; the dredging in Jenney Pond and a potential fish passage at the Grist Mill. So, I’m guessing that she has a pretty synchronized relationship with Mr. Gould and other department heads, but I just want to make sure that she’s also–I’d like to see a sit down between herself, Mr. Gould. Mr. Beder, and the chair of the CPC so that everybody’s on the same page especially when it comes to executing potential land acquisitions. And textbook example is the one that is going to town meeting a week from Saturday with respect to the well out in West Plymouth and 100 acres of land so things like that. I just want to make sure we’re maximizing all our efforts on the fourth floor and that everybody’s on the same page.

Derek Brindisi:

Yeah, I’m happy to organize that meeting. As you know, there’s millions of dollars at the state level for land acquisition. So, I think what you’re getting at is we need to make sure we’re tied into that.

Betty Cavacco:

All right. We have a motion and a second. All those in favor to move those admin notes as a group? Unanimous.

All right. Now, next is Committee Appointments. We have Visitor Services Board. One full seat and three people. We have Mike Tubin, Sue Krabbe, and Caroline Chapin. Is anybody–Mr. Tubin?

Michael Tubin:                                                                         

Madam Chair, Select Board, Town manager, staff. Before the meeting’s over, can I put on a quick flag request?

Betty Cavacco:

No.

Michael Tubin:

No? Okay. I’ve been a resident of Plymouth for going on 20 years now. I live in the downtown waterfront. I have a business in the downtown waterfront. I’ve had a couple of businesses, a few businesses over the years, tourism related in the downtown waterfront.

[1:30:06]

Michael Tubin:

I’ve been on the Historic District Commission for 17 years, 15 as the chairman. I’m the historic representative to the Community Preservation Committee. I’ve been on a few boards, task force to prevent homelessness, Habitat for Humanity, Simes house most recently and not long ago, we actually went before the Visitor Services Board as a representative of the Historic Commission and applied for funding for the welcome sign that’s down on Depot Park. So, it was really my first time coming before the Visitor Services Board and was very impressed how it was run, very impressed with the funding capabilities that they’re in charge of to improve the downtown waterfront, which I think closely relates to the Historic District Commission. So, I think I’d be very glad and honored to be appointed to the position. I think I can bring a lot to them. And I appreciate your time.

Betty Cavacco:

Thank you. Sue?

Sue Krabbe:

Good evening and thank you for this opportunity to come before you. My name is Sue Krabbe. People are always afraid to say it, but that’s my name. I’m a newbie to Plymouth. I moved here about a year ago from North of Boston. For the past 20 years, I’ve worked as the Director of Real Estate and Administration for a consulting company and our mission is to make transportation better for the future.

My work includes planning large meetings, conferences where decisions to hold them are often based on what locations offer in term of tourism. I also develop and manage budgets for our many offices around the country. While I’m a relative newcomer, I have quickly come to love this vibrant town and all that it offers its citizens and visitors. I would be thrilled to work with the team of like-minded individuals. Plymouth is clearly a tourist destination and a successful one. I’ve seen numbers touting between 2.5 and 5 million visitors per year. The revenue they bring to this town is vital to its continued growth. I would like to see the VSB focus on improving transportation around town, increasing advertising, improving popular attractions and drawing more events to Plymouth. Thank you for your consideration.

Betty Cavacco:

Thank you. And Caroline Chapin? No.

Anthony Senesi:

She stated she would not be able to attend for prior commitment. She sends her apologies.

Betty Cavacco:

Great. So, folks, you have one vote. Michael Tubin? Two. And Sue Krabbe? Three. Congratulations, Sue. Okay. Now, poor Lynne Barrett who’s been sitting in the audience. I’m sorry, Lynne. I didn’t realize you were at the end of the agenda.

Lynne Barrett:

That’s okay. Not a problem. Lynne Barrett, Director of Finance. So, the reason I’m here tonight is the Finance Department obviously manages the ARPA Projects and you’ve previously authorized several projects. And the reason for tonight’s presentation is one, to make some necessary adjustments to those previous authorizations due to either reduction in what we need for those projects or increase what we need for those projects.

So, the four items that need to be adjusted; one is the SCADA upgrades. You originally authorized 797,000. We’re asking for that to be reduced by 300,000 for a total of 497,000. That is the amount that they need for the actual construction and implementation of that project. Previously, town meeting authorized the Engineering Services out of their regular sewer retained earnings.

[1:35:05]

Lynne Barrett:

The second item or–do you want to do these individually or all is one? I’m sorry. Okay. Okay. The second one is–

Dick Quintal:

You can do them all at once, Lynne.

Lynne Barrett:

Okay. The second one is the Airport Wastewater Treatment Plant Upgrades. So, we had originally previously authorized $2.5 million, and that was based on some engineering estimates prior to finishing final design and that kind of thing. So, we have an increased estimate now on that project. So, we’d like to increase that by 700,000 for a total of 3.2 million for the Airport Wastewater Treatment Plant.

The third project is the Water Street interceptor. That project was originally authorized for 3,850,000 and then the project was put out to bid and contract has been tentatively awarded to the vendor for start of construction in, I believe, November and the total that we’re looking for there is 4.7 million.

The fourth project that needs adjustments is Covid test kits. We had two departments, the Health Department and Emergency Management had put in requests for purchasing of test kits. We purchased one set of test kits originally and those test kits were delivered. We also had the opportunity at the same time to get test kits from Plymouth County. So, there wasn’t a need to do our second additional purchase of test kits. So, we’re asking for a reduction of 153,200 to that line item.

So, those are four projects that we’re asking you to adjust from the ARPA funding. If you have any questions, I’m happy to answer any questions and we actually have DPW Sewer people here tonight if there are any specific questions regarding the SCADA Airport Wastewater Treatment Plant or the Water Street interceptor.

Dick Quintal:

Any questions from board members?

John Mahoney:

Mr. Beder is still going to get up?

Lynne Barrett:

Yes. He’s going to give you an update on the projects.

John Mahoney:

I move approval on those four adjustments.

Harry Helm:

I’ll second.

Dick Quintal:

Discussion? All those in favor?

Lynne Barrett:

Thank you.

Dick Quintal:

You’re welcome.

Lynne Barrett:

The second item on the memo for ARPA is there are three project requests that are finalized and ready to be recommended to your Board. Included in your packets was a request for 350,000 for Jenney Pond dam, $22, 371 for Oak Street housing specifically to do their water service connection for that project. That’s a project that we previously had voted CPC funds for some units at that location and they’ve also gotten some State funding for that project. And then the last item is for a hot box for $55, 100. And again, JB–I mean, DPW is here tonight to answer any questions regarding the hot box. There was a memo in your packet from Russ Shirley from the Housing Authority for the Oak Street request. And then I believe David Gould submitted some items in your packet also.

Betty Cavacco:

Thanks, Lynne. One thing that I just wanted to mention and it will be on the October 18th agenda and I’m sorry I had to–but anyway. We’re going to have a presentation on the 18th from the preschool playground and it’s for $20,000 and I had spoken to Derek and it’s something that I wanted to use ARPA funds for. I guess, the preschools and pretty the playground I guess they’re separate and it’s in pretty rough shape and I know that PTA person will be here to present. So, save $20,000 just in case.

[1:40:01]

Betty Cavacco:

Anything else? Do we have any questions?

Dick Quintal:

I have a couple for JB.

Betty Cavacco:

Go ahead.

Harry Helm:

Just real quick, Lynne for the people watching at home who don’t have our packet, would you please explain what a hot box is?

Lynne Barrett:

I’m going to have JB come up and explain.

Betty Cavacco:

I’ll tell you what it is. It’s for asphalt.

Lynne Barrett:

I know it has something to do with filling potholes.

Harry Helm:

No, I know that. I just thought an explanation of something we’re approving money for might be appropriate.

Betty Cavacco:

A hot box is for asphalt. So, that’s my explanation for today.

Harry Helm:

How about you, JB? Why don’t you explain a hot box for our residents?

Betty Cavacco:

I dare you to say something different.

Jonathan Beder:

Good evening, everybody. Pleasure to be here. Jonathan Beder, Director of Public Works. So, what we refer to as a hot box is really more of an oven for asphalt. What it allows us to do is pick up asphalt at a plan and if we don’t use all that mix, if you would, we can plug it in and keep it overnight so it stays hot. What we don’t want to use is cold patch. It doesn’t last long. We want more of a durable long-lasting sustainable product, and this is it. This piece of equipment is phenomenal. We have one asphalt oven, if you would, in town now. It’s much smaller in size. It’s not as sophisticated in terms of its abilities. It mounts on the back of our six wheels so it has some height. We have to dump it into wheelbarrows. This piece of equipment is a low-profile machine. I gave you all the specifications. It’s readily available. It’s on state bid. It’s a four-ton unit. Actually, I had some great stats for once in a while. In terms of our potholes, we had 582 calls last year for potholes. All of them were addressed. We used about 654 tons of asphalt, which is the equivalent of 54 10-wheelers. So, that’s how much asphalt we put down. So, having two hot boxes, if you would, would really provide a tremendous benefit in terms of the DPW being able to respond to these complaints. But basically, it’s a machine. It’s a piece of equipment that holds asphalt and we can keep it for long durations of time. So, thank you.

Harry Helm:

Thank you, JB.

Jonathan Beder:

You’re welcome.

Betty Cavacco:

Oh, do you need a motion, Lynne?

Lynne Barrett:

Yeah. Just on those three items that were ready for recommendation this evening.

John Mahoney:

Move approval.

Dick Quintal:

Second.

Betty Cavacco:

Motioned by Mr. Mahoney, seconded by Mr. Quintal. Discussion? All those in favor? Unanimous. Thank you.

Lynne Barrett:

Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Thanks, Lynne. Do we need a motion for the hot box?

Dick Quintal:

We just did.

Betty Cavacco:

Oh, I’m sorry. Don’t let me go to the bathroom anymore.

Dick Quintal:

No. I heard it say we’re going to ask JB some questions after. So, I just have two quick ones myself. At one of the meetings moons ago and I don’t know if you were there or not, but the airport, Tom Maher was here at the time. And I asked him about the billing from the uses on the airport wastewater treatment facility and that was done through the, I believe the airport, which I thought was very strange. Since we’re building this new plant, the sewer bill is coming out of this building and will the payments go to this building. In other words, is everybody paying the same person?

Lynne Barrett:

So, what happened was we set a different rate for the airport wastewater treatment plant users because the cost of that plant are different than the cost of the town’s wastewater sewer plant. So, there’s two different rate structures. That rate structure was presented to me from the airport manager. I went through, reviewed the costs, worked with the Department of Public Works, the Water Department so that we are billing through our system and the revenue is being collected and given to the Airport Enterprise fund because they pay the cost of that facility. So, this is the construction of the upgrade of that facility, but the revenue that will come in from those users will help pay to maintain this facility without having anything come from the general fund or from the sewer enterprise fund. It’s two separate systems.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. But didn’t we use ARPA money, which isn’t out of the general fund to build that whole plant brand new?

[1:45:04]

Lynne Barrett:

We’re going to be using ARPA money to build that plant, yes.

Dick Quintal:

Right. So, my only question again, so the building is still going to be separate even though that’s the case because–so, what you’re saying is there was no expense to the town, we’re building a new plant but yet, they’re going to pay the airport for the maintenance going forward.

Lynne Barrett:

The revenue that they’re going to collect for sewer user fees is going to be used to maintain that wastewater treatment plant at the airport.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. So, now, I have a new question. Seeing that and seeing what happened in the past, which was it didn’t look like any maintenance at all and I’m not mechanical at all but it was a disgrace, who’s going to be the watchdog and what’s in place now that this doesn’t happen again?

Lynne Barrett:

I’m going to let the superintendent.

Dick Quintal:

Okay, Lynn. Thank you.

Jonathan Beder:

Yeah, that’s a great question, Mr. Quintal. We felt the same way once we put eyes on the station and I think I know I went through that station with Harry at one point in time and it was deplorable. But I’ve already made recommendations to the new airport manager, the town manager, Lynne as far as for the FY ‘24 budget that they carry a line item. I’m already trying to get a price from Woodard and Curran to basically operate and maintain that facility. We’re kind of putting that bid package out now. Now, that the board took this action tonight with the additional ARPA increase. We hope we get that out to bid. I think the restriction is that the project has to be done by the spring of ’24, which will meet that deadline. After that, it will be maintained and controlled by Woodard and Curran. That’s our expectation.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. And my last question is how many users roughly do we have on that plant right now? And is there any plans–I think there’s plans to expand some of that, no? If it is, is it residential? Is it commercial or a mix?

Jonathan Beder:

Yeah. So, there’s 32 total uses at the airport now. We are looking at expansion in two ways. One is conceptually out to the town property on South Meadow Road. The other piece I know we’ve been working with the airport. We’ve met two times now internally to look at extending the gravity line, a new Gravity line outside the new treatment facility because they are looking at future expansion. So, we’re trying to stay a couple of steps ahead in terms of once we have this new wastewater treatment plant operational, how we can kind of clean up their infrastructure and have additional gravity lines in place so once they do add their new development, they can flow into that treatment plant. So, we’re looking at increased development on-site and off-site at some point in time.

Dick Quintal:

Did you say 32?

Jonathan Beder:

32 now, correct.

Dick Quintal:

Wow, it’s a lot of beans for a plant for 32 people. I mean, we couldn’t have just run lines right up to the main plant, pumped them up there like we do from the waterfront, or no? I mean, you know what I’m getting at.

Jonathan Beder:

The design they took the installation methodology back in the day, they didn’t really install the mains to the certain depth. So, you have a lot of low pressure pumps kind of tying into one gravity line. So, it’s kind of sporadic and it really needs to be repaired. So, our thought is once we have this new wastewater treatment plant online, we’ll install one deeper gravity connection and those new lines can tie into that. That’ll solve a lot of problems you have now, because I think you have three or four pump stations. These two pump stations plus the third is three. So, it’s kind of a system of spaghetti out there in terms of the way some of the lines tie into that wastewater treatment plant. By installing one deeper line, Dickie we can kind of start to clean that up. And hopefully, we can do that in the next couple years. I know Matt’s working with his groups to try to get some grant money to do that.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. And I’m going to switch over to Jenney Pond now because the town is investing a lot of money in Jenney Pond and it’s needed. My question is the lighting around Jenney Pond, I thought money was appropriated for that and if it is, maybe the lights are done but I’ll tell you what, they were looking pretty sad. So, if they haven’t been replaced, they’re even looking sad. I even think I saw a buoy on top of one and I’m only bringing this up naturally we’re following Boston today that way, because that poll came down and hit somebody that was walking in Boston. I mean, those need to be replaced. So, who’s responsible for those and where’s the money?

Jonathan Beder:

I would say DPW is responsible. A couple years back, we got funding and we rebuilt that parking lot, that whole area, new drainage, landscaping. We put the infrastructure in for the lighting, all new conduit and the footings. We just didn’t have enough funding to actually install the lights. I have spoken with David multiple times. We’re trying to kind of get some additional money from his project so we can finally complete that. We’re hopeful to do that this year to install new decorative lighting in Jenney.

[1:50:11]

Dick Quintal:

How much money you shot for that?

Jonathan Beder:

I don’t remember off the top of my head, Dickie. It was a couple hundred thousand dollars because the lighting is so expensive today to purchase but it is on our list. We are aware of it. We will get it done.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you.

Jonathan Beder:

You’re welcome.

Charlie Bletzer:

One question.

Betty Cavacco:

Sure.

Charlie Bletzer:

JB, just one question. The money for the sewer was given to us by the county.

Jonathan Beder:

Which sewer project?

Charlie Bletzer:

For the airport project.

Jonathan Beder:

For the airport, yes, that’s county fund.

Charlie Bletzer:

Now, is that CARES Act or ARPA or is that the same thing?

Jonathan Beder:

It’s ARPA funding.

Charlie Bletzer:

Oh, it was ARPA? Okay. Just I didn’t know if that was different. But that was from the county?

Lynne Barrett:

Yeah. In the memo that I gave you, I have sort of like columns of where the town’s ARPA funds and then the county ARPA funds because we’re trying to utilize those county ARPA funds for some of these major sewer projects.

Charlie Bletzer:

Well, that was directly for that project.

Lynne Barrett:

Yes. They gave us an initial payment of the $2,250,000.

Charlie Bletzer:

I know. I got the check.

Lynne Barrett:

So, now, I’ve talked to Tom O’Brien and he said, “Why don’t we wait until the bids come in for that project and we’ll submit our final request.”

Charlie Bletzer:

Oh, good. That’s good to hear. Great.

Betty Cavacco:

I have a comment for JB, and I wasn’t going to say anything but I’m going to now, does that new hot box that you’re getting, is it going to fix the damn berms on Hilltop Ave?

Jonathan Beder:

We are installing all new berms on Hilltop Ave.

Betty Cavacco:

When are you doing this because every time it rains, guess who gets phone calls?

Jonathan Beder:

Me too. So, what happened, if everybody doesn’t know, there was a spill berm placed on Hilltop. We’ve spoken with our contractor, TL Edwards. We’re going to have them go back and put a traditional berm there. We’re just trying to figure out how we’re going to get the Lumen seed in, because they’re having a hard time getting their contractor in. So, that’s something I think we’re going to do. So, we’re trying to schedule TL to come in and put the berm in once the weather breaks, get that in and then Lumen seed that and then we’ll be done. But yes, we’re trying to get that done next week.

Betty Cavacco:

Perfect. Thank you.

Jonathan Beder:

You’re welcome.

Dick Quintal:

Thank you.

Betty Cavacco:

Okay. I guess, you’re up next for the Sewer Interceptor.

Jonathan Beder:

Yes. So, again, we’re here this evening, I’m going to turn it over to Doug Pinard. Doug Pinard is our Wastewater Manager. He’s been here for about a year and a half and I don’t think you’ve had the pleasure to hear him present. So, he’s going to talk about these two projects, but I wanted to just give you a brief introduction because it’s been almost a year since the Board has really put these two projects forward. And again, this is all about resiliency, sustainability. And these are two critical projects for the town especially in the downtown, the waterfront area. And again, Doug will go into the details but both of them heavy highway projects, the flood wall we’re ready to start now, the interceptor we’re looking to start December 1st but we wanted to kind of refresh you where we were, give you an update. Both projects have been designed, bid. Those bids have been awarded and we’re ready to go. We just really wanted to come in front of the Board, give you an update, answer any questions. We’re also going to have a public outreach meeting. We want to do this first with all the downtown businesses for the interceptor. We’re probably going to conduct that in the next couple of weeks. That’ll definitely happen before December 1st and I’m working with Amy Naples at the Chamber to try to schedule a meeting with the Chamber of Commerce to go over the interceptor. So, with that, I’m going to turn it over to Doug. He’ll run through two brief presentations and then we’re happy to answer any questions. So, thank you.

Douglas Pinard:

Good evening. I’m Doug Pinard, Sewer Superintendent. Like JB said, I’ve been here about a year and a half. It’s great to meet everyone. Some of you I’ve met. I’m here to update you on a couple of the projects that we have in town. We have many, but these are two that are ongoing.

So, the Water Street Pump Station is the main pump station in town and that carries all of our waste water to the main treatment plant about 60 miles. So, originally, the flood wall was designed in 2017. And we had EPG, Environmental Partners group. We look at it again this year and the recent sea level, so they looked at it and some of the things that they looked at was FEMA’s 100-year flood plan. We based it on the size of the wall, what would be the best approach to protect that station.

[1:55:00]

Douglas Pinard:

So, we’ve come up with a 5-foot permanent flood barrier wall and with stop logs where the gates, the two openings are for the pump station. One on the west side facing the front of the station and one on the south side. We have stop blocks that will be in place for an event at those locations where there’s some automatic gates. And we’ve also looked at the design to minimize any impact on the landscaping at the pump station. So, we have a few trees that are going to be removed on the north side, but for the most part, all the ones on the west side facing the treatment plan from Water Street, those are all going to be intact as well as the ones on the south side.

Let’s see. So, we redesigned the wall to encumber just the lift station. Seeing that Plymouth has eight of its own lift stations, they all come to main lift station here on Water Street and it’s an important structure for the town because if you lose this pump station, you’d lose everything in town. And Plymouth is about less than 30% connected so you’d lose a lot. This project is very important to protect the station. So, we re-designed it and made it a smaller footprint to protect the station with least impact as possible. This is one of the renderings that we have. This is something that what it will look like when we’re finished with the brick facade matching downtown. I think EP did a great job on this project.

So, this is actually currently going on down on Water Street. Now, if you take a ride by there, actually we’re trying to set up a sample of what the wall will actually look like down at the lift station. So, that is actually going on. It’s already started and we’re looking to wrap up by spring of next year.

Okay. I’ll take any questions.

Betty Cavacco:

Actually, I do have a question. You said a few trees?

Douglas Pinard:

Yes. So, on the north side of the pump station, there’s a few evergreens there that some of them are actually diseased already. So, there was–yeah, let’s see. What was it? One, two, three, four, five, six–nine of them.

Betty Cavacco:

So, a few is a three. Several is six.

Douglas Pinard:

Several. Yeah, several trees.

Betty Cavacco:

Many is more than 7. Can we figure out a way? Because you know that as soon as we start taking down trees, people are going to freak out because they’re all mature. I don’t have a problem with disease trees coming down but–

Jonathan Beder:

Yeah. So, this is one of the main reasons why we want to come in front of the board tonight. And we went through a couple of design iterations on the wall to try to save as many trees. When we first met with a contractor, they wanted to take all the trees down and we were like, there’s no way that can happen. So, the original wall actually was rectangular in shape. It covered the shed. If you’re aware of the site and it was a lot bigger. So, we shrunk the wall down and you can see the radiuses to the east, all the trees in red those nine trees that are coming down are scrub pines. All the lindens, there’s one pine oak, we are able to save all of those. Okay? So, all the trees if you’re facing the pump station, if you’re standing in Water Street facing the station, all the trees in the front, the right side and the rear will be saved. It’s just the scrub pines on the left side that need to come down. And we will have a landscaping plan. We will replant those trees and more. In addition to the nine, we will have more back. And gain, we really tried to reduce the scope of work to save as many trees as we could, but there was nothing to do on that left side. And they’re scrub pines.

[2:00:00]

Jonathan Beder:

We saved the trees that we thought were most important. I’ve been working with Nick, the tree Warden on this and Environmental Partners and the contractor, it’s going to look great. The wall is going to look great. In addition to the trees, there will be a mock wall as far as what this is going to look like. I’m waiting for that to get done. So, if you drive by the station, you’ll see a piece of plywood. The wall, the stone itself is going to match what we did on the Water Street bridge that ashlar, that rock. Same kind of pattern, same kind of joints in terms of the mortar. So, we’re going to follow that look throughout town. So, as far as the trees, I get it. We don’t want to take any down, but this is the only way to get the wall in. So, this is really what we need to do.

Betty Cavacco:

John?

John Mahoney:

Can you put the slide up with the schematic of what the building looks like?

Douglas Pinard:

Yes, this one.

John Mahoney:

Right there. So, what we’re doing is in that little house there, that’s what we’re protecting, correct?

Douglas Pinard:

Correct.

John Mahoney:

Okay. So, there’s two gates. I mean, so that wall is going to stop water in a hundred years storm from getting in there? It goes up to four or five foot tall, it’s going to–

Jonathan Beder:

Yeah. So, John pointed out because this is critical in terms of everything this town has been doing in terms of resiliency, this is it because all the sewage that basically flows by gravity, it goes to this station and then it gets pumped up to Camelot throughout two new–

John Mahoney:

Four miles?

Jonathan Beder:

Four and a half miles, that’s correct. What this wall will do, it will prevent any storm sewage from coming in from the Harbor from the ocean and really putting that station underwater, which would create a tremendous amount of soil overflow everywhere. Anywhere that’s unsure if the station goes underwater, it’s going to be a major problem.

John Mahoney:

And cost you and cost the town or insurance wise increment to millions of dollars.

Jonathan Beder:

It would be catastrophic. Absolutely.

John Mahoney:

So, that gate, I’m just curious, that that gate, how does that work? I mean, you putting that. So, the storm’s coming in, we know the water trying–

Jonathan Beder:

We’re to tell a tale here, John. I’m getting there. We’ll get there.

John Mahoney:

All right. Sorry, go ahead.

Jonathan Beder:

So, the wall itself, it is designed to be raised in elevation over time. So, none of us will be here in 100 years and depending on what happens with the Atlantic, they can add to that wall and raise it up. So, that’s number one.

Number two, we had to have it watertight. So, this gate will be on site and that can be put into place. So, if we know a nor’easter or a blizzard or some type of storms coming in where we’re worried about that flood elevation, we can put that gate in and protect that station.

John Mahoney:

It’s manually installed.

Jonathan Beder:

That’s correct. That wall will be manually put into place, okay? And it will be watertight.

The third element is all of the drainage because there’s drainage in that parking lot in that site, there’ll be valves put on those lines so no storm surge will be able to kind of penetrate those drain lines and bring water back up subsurface. So, actually, I know for a fact all our bases, all our t’s are crossed, all our i’s are dotted in terms of protecting this main piece of infrastructure.

Charlie Bletzer:

Betty?

Betty Cavacco:

Mr. Bletzer?

Charlie Bletzer:

JB or either one, that wall–I mean, I’m very familiar spending 23 years down there. I’ve seen all the storms and that will definitely protect that building, no question about it and it looks great. Those trees you talk about taking out, they had to come out. They were ugly. And I’m confident looking at this rendering that you’re going to put probably more trees in there that will decorate it, that will be nicer than what was there but that the wall looks fantastic.

Jonathan Beder:

The other thing too is I mean, we’re paying a lot of attention to the aesthetics. So, the wall actually will be actually a little bit further back from the back edge of sidewalk. So, if you’re walking along that corridor, if you’re on Water Street, the appearance of more frontage will come into effect because that wall is going to be set closer to the station than it shows in that picture. So, it’s going to really open up the area.

Charlie Bletzer:

Oh, yeah. It’s going to be beautiful. Much better than what’s down there now so money well spent.

Betty Cavacco:

Okay. Any questions?

Douglas Pinard:

You guys good?

Betty Cavacco:

Yup.

Douglas Pinard:

The next project we’re going to talk about is the interceptor down on Water Street, which is the sewer main. Here we go. So, originally, the sewer interceptor, the sewer main was put in in 1969 and that lies down on the beach in the tide zone.

[2:05:04]

Douglas Pinard:

So, we’ve tried a few times to try to get in that area to inspect that, to check the condition, to see if there’s any INI and we’re unable to get in there. So, the goal is to get it off the beach and up Into Water Street and replace that 30-inch gravity main. And what we’ll do once it’s up Into Water Street is we’re going to abandon in place the current sewer main and remove those sewer manholes that you see down there. Originally, it was designed by Weston & Sampson and before my time, there was an attempt at this project, which didn’t work out so well and they had to suspend that project.

EP came in, did some emergency repairs and did a great job designing on how to dewater that and get that buttoned up back down there and the project was left. And so, we’ve relooked at the design to try to get the interceptor off the beach and onto Water Street. So, it’s about 1300 feet along Water Street from the state area there down by the parking lot by Memorial Hall. So, right now, the alignment we have is to go keep the gravity sewer main and just replace the 30-inch in Water Street.

Initially, we looked at microtunneling but because of cost and supply to the town, just the lead time and the construction costs were just too excessive and to that too would also shut down a lot of that area would just take up too much room for the businesses and the residents and the tourism down there. So, we abandoned that concept and went to a more conventional open cut, which we’re hoping is going to keep both lanes open down there and keep traffic moving, keeping the business open and less impact plus we have the construction starting this December. I mean, it’s always busy here in Plymouth but we’re trying to reduce the impact downtown.

So, again, we know them starting conceptually in December and running through to spring again of next year.

John Mahoney:

So, you’re targeting construction over the non-peak period for tourism?

Douglas Pinard:

Correct.

John Mahoney:

Oh, I’m sorry, you’re starting in two months.

Douglas Pinard:

Yes.

John Mahoney:

Okay. How long the project going to go on for? Is this a month? Two months?

Douglas Pinard:

Oh, well, no. It will go right through to till spring.

John Mahoney:

So, by Memorial Day, it’ll be done?

Douglas Pinard:

Yes. April. That’s what we’re shooting for, yes.

John Mahoney:

You’re shooting for April?

Douglas Pinard:

Yeah.

John Mahoney:

Okay. And this has been communicated to everyone up and down that stretch of road?

Douglas Pinard:

Well, like JB said, we’re going to have a public outreach as well to let everybody know our plan. And our current plan is if you look at it, we’re going to have it on the west side closer to the water. So, we’ll have little to no impact. Plus, with this design, we’re hoping that we’ll be able to move the construction quicker and with a lot less impact downtown.

John Mahoney:

So, you’re going to abandon the pipe in the harbor but you’re going to remove the manhole covers that you can see walking by?

Douglas Pinard:

Correct. Those will all be removed.

John Mahoney:

The funding mechanism is borrowing against the Enterprise fund, ARPA?

Douglas Pinard:

ARPA funding.

John Mahoney:

All ARPA?

Douglas Pinard:

Yup.

John Mahoney:

Okay.

Jonathan Beder:

I just need to say a couple comments. As far as this realignment here, because the last time I was in front of the board almost a year ago, we talked about the microtunnel. And I know Dickie you would share at the time and we’re really pushing that issue. After meeting with multiple heavy contractors, the microtunnel just didn’t seem to fit. I mean, we bid it that way with an open cut as an alternate but pipe availability and the contract have to mobilize to install two shafts to microtunnel to do that type of boring which would occupy both lanes, which means we wouldn’t be allowed to have any traffic go through there. So, we kind of knew we had to rule that out right away.

[2:10:06]

Jonathan Beder:

But what the contractor wants to do, we’ve already bid the project in Northern Construction wins the bid and they do great work. They built the culvert down. They’ve done a lot a lot of work for the town over the past couple years, a lot of seawall work but they’re a heavy outfit. And what they want to do is they want to really realign this go as far to the east as possible on the road and install a series of sheet piles which will help with the dewatering. They want to install a whole series of low pressure dewatering, like a low pressure dewatering system, which is what we really didn’t do the last time. And what this will do is with this, they’ll keep this old gravity line so all of these side street connections we won’t have to deal with. We’ll keep those in place. We’ll come back and line that old sewer so that would really accelerate our schedule, which is great because again, as Doug mentioned, we want to be out of there by Memorial Day.

The schedule shows June, but we want to be out by Memorial Day. So, we want all the pipe work this new main done by then. But John, your question was we needed to go through DEP for a Chapter 91 license for this, and it’s very interesting the history. And DEP was great to work with. They really were accommodating except in the fact that they are stipulating in our Chapter 91 permit that that sewer main has to come out. So, it was part of this contract. The contract is going to remove the manhole covers, fill them with flow fill so you were able to see those, but the town has committed to removing that pipe at a future date and that date is yet to be determined. And what I have told the state and DEP is that at some point in time when the town rebuilds Water Street whether it be repairs to the seawall, whether it be the Promenade project, whether it be drainage, the town will have to cover the costs to remove that line. Okay.

John Mahoney:

Okay. And last question. So, the pipe going in the ground again over engineered top quality. What are we putting in the ground? What’s the diameter?

Jonathan Beder:

It’s going to be 30-inch SDR 25.

John Mahoney:

What is SDR 25?

Jonathan Beder:

So, SDR is a plastic. And the 25 is the actual thickness. So, I think that–I’m pretty sure that’s as thick as they make a PVC pipe. So, there’s 25, 35 and 45. There’s all different types of grades. So, 25 is the thickest plastic pipe you can put in the ground. That’s what the engineers are specifying and that’s where we’ll go.

John Mahoney:

Thank you.

Jonathan Beder:

You’re welcome.

Charlie Bletzer:

Question.

Betty Cavacco:

Go ahead.

Charlie Bletzer:

The microtunneling was a little more expensive and I think we agreed on that, but it’s not about the money. It’s about getting the materials and it’s about closing the street down on that, but it’s just as effective that material is just and doing it like you’re doing it, it’s just as effective because I know it’s just a disaster waiting to happen down there and we can’t get this done quick enough. Question on the 30-inch, didn’t we have a problem with 30-inch before and then we went to 24-inch on the last sewer disaster?

Jonathan Beder:

No, it was never a question or a problem with pipe diameter. The issue we had back there is the artesian effect with the groundwater. So, it was always about dewatering the trench.

Charlie Bletzer:

But there wasn’t enough flow and you couldn’t–

Jonathan Beder:

No, it was never a question of pipe diameter, Charlie. I mean, it has to be 30-inch for the amount of flow that comes to the interceptor because remember, that interceptor is taking all of your flow bringing it to Water Street, the pump station. So, that 30-inch is the size we need to accept that. We can’t downgrade the size.

Charlie Bletzer:

Like I said, the Decemberists that’s the slowdown after December and hopefully you have a good winter and get this thing done.

Jonathan Beder:

Yeah. Hopefully, we have a good winter because we are ready to go December 1st. As soon as that parade is done, they’re ready to go.

Charlie Bletzer:

Yeah. Okay, good.

Dick Quintal:

Madam Chairman?

Betty Cavacco:

Go ahead, Mr. Quintal.

Dick Quintal:

This is probably the last one, JB. Last time we talked, we were going to do a different thing and the problem was the water and not being able to seal. I mean, I think that’s why they joke around that’s why it’s called Water Street. So, in this process, are we going to have that same problem be able to backfill and keep it from sinking?

Jonathan Beder:

What happened the last time was the contractor Penny bid the dewatering. So, knowing that working with the engineers, we really focused on our general conditions bid specs to make sure that it was more than apparent that the Geotech work, the dewatering is paramount in this project.

[2:15:00]

Jonathan Beder:

And what I mean by that is those details we had from when we did the project in 2014, I think it was, so we had all of that history, all of that data. We rolled that into the plans and specs and we put that bid out. So, Northern, our contractor, is extremely aware of that and is working with a subcontractor to bring them in and specifically address the dewatering. So, like the last time, what you’ll see out there is they’ll bite it off in sections. I think they’re going to go 60 to 80 feet with a crane, they’re going to drive sheet piles, which will cause some vibration but we’ll go over all this with the abutters. That’s one of the reasons why I wanted to move them far away from the storefronts as possible, closer to the wall. That sheet pile will be driven. The dewatering will happen simultaneously. The contractor will excavate, put the pipe in with the proper bedding and backfill and then proceed along Water Street. But the critical piece is the dewatering. Last time, the contractor dewatered incorrectly. We had issues with the Memorial Hall parking lot. We had a tremendous amount of issues with dirty water. So, all of those things were aware of and we’re not going to let it happen again. We’re confident. Absolutely.

Betty Cavacco:

Okay, great. Thank you.

Jonathan Beder:

Thank you all very much.

Betty Cavacco:

I don’t think we need anything else. Nope. Okay. Next is the Town Manager’s report.

Derek Brindisi:

Okay. So, I’ll start with some sad news. So, I think many of you have heard a little over a week ago, one of our planning board members Paul McAlduff had passed away unexpectedly. We actually lowered the flag in remembrance of him and that was an unfortunate and tragic event. But that being said, we do have a vacancy with the Planning Board and the bylaw requires that the Select Board hold a joint meeting with the Planning Board in order to fill that vacancy. So, Anthony is going to have it advertise for applicants for the Planning Board position and then I would suspect probably in early November, we’d have to hold a joint meeting with the Planning Board. So, just to put that on your radar.

Just a couple updates. The Drug Take Back Program and Sharps Disposal Program will take place on October 29th from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. both at the Cedarville fire station and police headquarters. This is interesting because this is a joint event between fire and police. Typically, the police department, they handle the Drug Take Back Program and the Sharps Disposal Program is usually handled by fire. So, they’re combining efforts and having multiplications to do both.

Just to announce that tomorrow is the first day of Coffee with a Cop that will take place at stalls in Manomet from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. So, we’ll have police officers at stalls just to talk to residents, answer any questions or concerns that they may have and then we’ll be doing that next week as well.

The Economic Development Foundation will be hosting a two-day conference on October 24th and 25th. That’s known as the Blue Future Conference and that’ll be held at the 1620 Hotel. We’re expecting upwards of 70 coastal communities to be represented at this conference. We’re also hoping that this will be an opportunity to showcase all the things that Plymouth is doing on that waters.

If you drive past station two this coming week, you will notice that there’s a demolition phases underway and we’ll be removing the living quarters in the front part of the building which is closest to Sandwich Street. So, I want folks to be aware that although they may be driving by station two, they may think that it’s not an operation, it’s actually fully operational and fully staffed. So, I just want folks to be aware of that.

We’re coming towards the end of the season for the 1749 Courthouse, which will be closing this coming Monday after Columbus Day.

And then some bad news again. I feel like I’m always talking about graffiti in this town. This past Sunday we had another eight vehicles that were tagged with graffiti here at the Town Hall parking deck. On the positive side, the chief has reported that they have a suspect in custody who did this tagging.

I see our town clerk is here this evening. I’m so happy to report Elveera Gallino has been appointed as a new Assistant Town Clerk, and she began her role yesterday and she’ll be joining us at the October 15th fall town meeting as well.

And then last, I want to end with thanking Selectman Quintal for donating over 50 pounds of candy to Town Hall. This as you know, will be used towards our efforts to joining the Chamber of Commerce in the trick-or-treat event downtown.

[2:20:06]

Derek Brindisi:

So, again, I want to thank Mr. Quintal for donating all that candy to Town Hall. So, I can tell you that has a lot of excitement from all of our different departments who are really looking forward to joining all the other businesses downtown on October 31st.

Pending any questions, that’s all I have for this evening.

Betty Cavacco:

Mr. Quintal?

Dick Quintal:

I have just one comment on the construction of the sewer main being replaced on Water Street. Could you ask, JB to let me know and I don’t know if any other members want to go until when they have that information wherever they’re going to have it, I’d like to attend that and be sitting with the neighbors down there. It’s easy to face them face-to-face and have them follow me at the time. Thanks.

And the other thing, I’m sorry. Excuse me, Madam Chairman. In the garage or the deck over here, PGDC has cameras in other lots. I know by the Radisson right, Charlie and the other one I think is Middle Street who are having issues.

Charlie Bletzer:

I believe there’s cameras in the garage, isn’t it? Did you put cameras in there?

Derek Brindisi:

We have cameras at the deck, at the parking lot.

Dick Quintal:

So, that’s how you apprehended it?

Derek Brindisi:

That’s right.

Dick Quintal:

Awesome. Okay.

Derek Brindisi:

Let’s try not to give out our secrets.

Dick Quintal:

Okay. Well, maybe if they hear it, they won’t do it. Thanks.

Betty Cavacco:

Okay. Anything else for the Town Manager? All right. I have. Well, actually, I can do it under New Business. So, Select Board Open Discussion. Does anybody have anything? Are you going to be in the time machine, John?

John Mahoney:

No.

Betty Cavacco:

All right.

John Mahoney:

So, just picking up on Derek had reported about the loss of Paul from the Planning Board and that’s forcing us for the wrong reasons to have a joint meeting with the Planning Board. So, hopefully after obviously through the Chair, I’m hoping that sometime after fall town meeting and maybe before the end of the year that we could also have a joint meeting with the School Committee.

Betty Cavacco:

That’s already in the box.

John Mahoney:

All right, perfect.

Betty Cavacco:

Anyone else? New Business/Letters/Old Business? The only thing I have, Derek is that I actually spoke to a resident today who I believe spoke to the Harbor Master about a month ago and some of the docks have like angles to them and what has happened is that they’ve had to put like aluminum gaps to make them fit. So, I guess, these are very, very slippery when they’re wet. And I know one of our commercial guys did fall and it was like I said, it was a month ago that they spoke whatever they were supposed to do has not been rectified but those guys are getting out of their boats, they’re wet every day. So, we don’t want–God forbid, someone to really get hurt themselves. So, if we can address that.

Derek Brindisi:

So, are these the metal transition pieces that are between the floats you’re referring to?

Betty Cavacco:

Yes.

Derek Brindisi:

Okay. I can follow up on that.

Betty Cavacco:

Thank you. Anybody else? All right. A motion to adjourn.

John Mahoney:

So move.

Betty Cavacco:

Second?

Harry Helm:

Second.

Betty Cavacco:

All those in favor? Goodbye, everyone and we will see you next at fall town meeting.